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Opinion on motor status 292

Posted By capelo 5 Years Ago
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capelo
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Checking the rocker trees, I have noticed that in one of them it has three different rockers aesthetically are thicker and with another reference it has something similar to this: EAB 6564-B
Ted
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capelo (12/22/2019)
...what is the original size of the holes of the large ends of the rods?

2.3124”   +/- 0.0004"


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


capelo
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Today I went through the rectification workshop, I took the rods and I tried to explain the resizing of the rods after changing the bolts but they have not understood, they say that if they do that I need larger caps internally (I don't know if that exists) any image, video or explanation to understand? I am in neutral with this. You would also need the original crankshaft measurements. thanks
KULTULZ
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I am watching (and learning) on the sidelines -

This post is not meant to interfere with the discussion between the OP and TED in any way.

What we are saying is that the ARP bolt has a head with small integral washer that skews the actual bolt shank off to one side and that the area on the rod @ the bolt head has to be relieved to allow the ARP bolt to center correctly within the rod to accept the rod cap correctly?

I wonder why we (at the least myself) have not heard of this before? Would that area on the rod be different between a 292 and 312 rod?



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KULTULZ (12/23/2019)
I am watching (and learning) on the sidelines -

This post is not meant to interfere with the discussion between the OP and TED in any way.

What we are saying is that the ARP bolt has a head with small integral washer that skews the actual bolt shank off to one side and that the area on the rod @ the bolt head has to be relieved to allow the ARP bolt to center correctly within the rod to accept the rod cap correctly?

I wonder why we (at the least myself) have not heard of this before? Would that area on the rod be different between a 292 and 312 rod?

When using the ARP 154-6004 rod bolts in the ECZ, C1TE, and C2AE rods, I don’t experience much issue with rod bolt fitment in those rods.  The EBU rods do require a longer bolt and that’s where the ARP 154-6005 rod bolt set comes into play.  It’s when using the ARP 154-6005 bolts in the EBU rods that I occasionally must lightly grind on the exterior part of the rod bolt heads so they properly seat in the spot faced recess in the rod.  The head design between the 6004 and 6005 rod bolt sets is different which explains to some degree why there is a fitment problem.
 
This likely hasn’t been brought up as most ‘do it yourself’ engine assemblers send their connecting rods out to be reconditioned.   Those shops doing the rod resizing performs the bolt head modifications as a standard practice so it’s not even mentioned.  I’ve come across the rod bolt fitment issues in other engines also so it’s not just a Y problem.  I’ve been doing this long enough that it seems second nature.  I did come close to going into a tyrade on this subject but I'll just trudge forward and leave it alone.


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


Ted
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capelo (12/22/2019)
Checking the rocker trees, I have noticed that in one of them it has three different rockers aesthetically are thicker and with another reference it has something similar to this: EAB 6564-B

I’m assuming you are talking about the pads on the ends of the rockers varying in width.  Closely examine the undersides or wear portions of those pads and make sure that the valve stem are making a full contact with the rocker pad.  If they are making a full contact, then no problem exists.  In the event that the rockers with narrower pads are contacting the valve stems at the outer edge of the pad and not making a full contact, then move those rockers to valve locations that will center the valve stem on the rocker pad.  Making note of where the wear patterns are before disassembling the rockers from the shaft will help to facilitate where to move them to if required.
 
Here’s a picture showing how the valve stem placement can vary on the rocker arm tip.  This is by design and is why the tips are designed to be as wide as they are.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/f03d0154-b328-4e3c-a801-b22d.jpg 


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


Ted
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capelo (12/23/2019)
Today I went through the rectification workshop, I took the rods and I tried to explain the resizing of the rods after changing the bolts but they have not understood, they say that if they do that I need larger caps internally (I don't know if that exists) any image, video or explanation to understand? I am in neutral with this. You would also need the original crankshaft measurements. thanks

In the normal course of the engine running, the rod bearing hole in the rod can become elongated over time and this will necessitate making the big end connecting rod bearing hole smaller again so it can be brought back to the proper size for the bearing to fit within it.  Also keep in mind that any time the rod bolts are removed from the rods, the potential is there for the cap to no longer align with the connecting rod as the rod bolts can find a new 'center' depending upon the rod bolt design.  Part of the rod resizing process involves grinding 0.001”-0.003” from the flats on both the rods and the caps.  This intentionally makes the rod bearing hole in the rod undersized so it can be honed back to both the factory specification and also become a ‘true’ hole once more.  Some shops will only take material off of the caps but by the book and doing the job properly will require both the caps and the rods being resurfaced at their flats.
  
It was interesting in looking for a video of this as there is a lot of misinformation and wrong ways in which to do the rod resizing operation.  I was happy with this particular video in regards to the big end resizing.  Ford full floated connecting rods do require the new bushings to be swedged into place before honing and that was not displayed in this particular video.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzUa8kYLSRU



Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


KULTULZ
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TED, I want to personally THANK YOU for your time and interest and sharing secrets here.

I am 71 and still learning ... Wink



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Ted (12/24/2019)
capelo (12/22/2019)
Checking the rocker trees, I have noticed that in one of them it has three different rockers aesthetically are thicker and with another reference it has something similar to this: EAB 6564-B

I’m assuming you are talking about the pads on the ends of the rockers varying in width.  Closely examine the undersides or wear portions of those pads and make sure that the valve stem are making a full contact with the rocker pad.  If they are making a full contact, then no problem exists.  In the event that the rockers with narrower pads are contacting the valve stems at the outer edge of the pad and not making a full contact, then move those rockers to valve locations that will center the valve stem on the rocker pad.  Making note of where the wear patterns are before disassembling the rockers from the shaft will help to facilitate where to move them to if required.
 
Here’s a picture showing how the valve stem placement can vary on the rocker arm tip.  This is by design and is why the tips are designed to be as wide as they are.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/f03d0154-b328-4e3c-a801-b22d.jpg 



Thanks for the comments, my question is not about the contact on the head of the valve, what I see different is the rocker itself, that its constitution is thicker and the reference also, can be seen in the photos, the doubt is that is not of a different ratio
capelo
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Ted (12/24/2019)
capelo (12/23/2019)
Today I went through the rectification workshop, I took the rods and I tried to explain the resizing of the rods after changing the bolts but they have not understood, they say that if they do that I need larger caps internally (I don't know if that exists) any image, video or explanation to understand? I am in neutral with this. You would also need the original crankshaft measurements. thanks

In the normal course of the engine running, the rod bearing hole in the rod can become elongated over time and this will necessitate making the big end connecting rod bearing hole smaller again so it can be brought back to the proper size for the bearing to fit within it.  Also keep in mind that any time the rod bolts are removed from the rods, the potential is there for the cap to no longer align with the connecting rod as the rod bolts can find a new 'center' depending upon the rod bolt design.  Part of the rod resizing process involves grinding 0.001”-0.003” from the flats on both the rods and the caps.  This intentionally makes the rod bearing hole in the rod undersized so it can be honed back to both the factory specification and also become a ‘true’ hole once more.  Some shops will only take material off of the caps but by the book and doing the job properly will require both the caps and the rods being resurfaced at their flats.
  
It was interesting in looking for a video of this as there is a lot of misinformation and wrong ways in which to do the rod resizing operation.  I was happy with this particular video in regards to the big end resizing.  Ford full floated connecting rods do require the new bushings to be swedged into place before honing and that was not displayed in this particular video.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzUa8kYLSRU




Thanks👍


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