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T-85 Borg transmission w/overdrive

Posted By 312T85Bird Last Year
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312T85Bird
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To those that want to stay stock but do not care about "Hidden" changes, the '58 thru '64 Custom, fairlane, and Galaxie T-85 w/overdrive is the same as the '57 Bird T-85 w/overdrive with the following exceptions: The Bird offered a close ratio and was shorter then the Passenger T-85 O.D. by 6" (Same as in '56/'57) also the '56 & '57 T-85's had a 10 &; 1" clutch disc where as the '58 thru '64 used a 23 &; 1" disc. so just change the clutch disc. and the shift arms on the side of the cover were exclusive to Thunderbird and different on the passenger car. So if you want a T-85 with or without overdrive and do not care if it is close ratio or year correct (They look exactly the same) then use a later one. They are everywhere because most people do not realize how useful they are. Me, I will stay stock. 312T85Bird

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pegleg
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What were the ratios in the later trans?

Frank/Rebop

Bristol, In ( by Elkhart) 



John Mummert
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Use caution when doing a transmission swap as the length of the input shaft varies. FE and small block input shafts are a little longer than a Y-Block.You should check to see that the input shaft doesn't bottom out in the crankshaft. If it does it WILL destroy your engine.

http://ford-y-block.com 

20 miles east of San Diego, 20 miles north of Mexico



312T85Bird
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I am not sure what FE engine you are looking at, however I have both 'Y' with 10 & 1" coarse and FE with 23 & 1" Fine and they are the same, but then both are out of passenger cars and not trucks.

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312T85Bird
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The same as '56 & '57 in the passenger cars. The '57 Bird is the only close ratio.

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Hoosier Hurricane
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312:

I find in my Ford parts books that '56-'57 passenger and '57 Bird all have the same tooth count on the main drive, cluster, and 1st and 2nd gears. How can they have different ratios?

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"
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312T85Bird
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When I have an opportunity to I will post the ratios, the close ratio was a BIRD ONLY OPTION and easily I.D.ed by a ring (groove) cut into the input shaft similar to what you would see on the Muncie used primarily by GM in the '60's and '70's. One must own every FORD and THUNDERBIRD book on earth to get accurate info because as unfortunate as it is most are incomplete and many actually have incorrect information and without the TSB's you won't get the corrections. Most of the guys that knew what was what have left this earth and a lot of things never got passed on except perhaps to someone in their area who has no idea that they may be the only ones knowing this. All this said, many times when someone feels they have been taken by an "Expert" because things are just not quite right the "Expert"may be doing things as he knows them to be done and actually an honest guy.

One tidbit that after almost 50 years working on cars was that The Warner Gear Company states to Never use Hypoid Type Transmission Gear Lube in the Warner Overdrive. I recieved a copy of an old manual just last year and it is in Bold Black Letters. The Hypoid lube that everyone uses is what actually will eventually burn out the planitary gears because it foams too much and will not access the small lube holes. I found a Mobil syn. that will do the job but it took a lot of research.

Hopefully this all makes sense to you.

312T85Bird

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Hoosier Hurricane
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312:

Interesting post about the lube. I found in my F350 with a Warner T-98, with hypoid lube, I got clash shifting to 3rd and 4th, but with GL1 rated mineral oil it shifted much better. I knew some of the old Warner people, and one of the engineers told me that. My Dad worked at Warner, however he was in the accounting/payroll area, did not really know the mechanics of the designs. He was a real help when I needed parts though, he got the employee discounts.

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"
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Hoosier Hurricane
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A follow-up to my above post. The B-W engineer told me that the hypoid oil was too slick to allow the brass blocking rings to grip the spinning gear enough for good synchronization. That's why the mineral oil worked better.

I knew the late Bill Barnes, who was the engineer responsible for the overdrive. He was a little eccentric in his later years. Dad told me he got a $1 royalty on every overdrive they sold. Maybe that's why he was eccentric. When I knew him he was well into his retirement, but was still getting his royalties.

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"
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312T85Bird
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Also good info., thanks for the follow up. The manual did say to use a Mineral type gear lube and I could not find any anywhere in the Country and the most recommended as a Mineral replacement came from Brad penn but only in a five gallon pail for around three hundred bucks. FORD has one and rummor is it is packaged by Penn however I do not know if true or not and FORD only gets thirty eight bucks a Quart.

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