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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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To those that want to stay stock but do not care about "Hidden" changes, the '58 thru '64 Custom, fairlane, and Galaxie T-85 w/overdrive is the same as the '57 Bird T-85 w/overdrive with the following exceptions: The Bird offered a close ratio and was shorter then the Passenger T-85 O.D. by 6" (Same as in '56/'57) also the '56 & '57 T-85's had a 10 &; 1" clutch disc where as the '58 thru '64 used a 23 &; 1" disc. so just change the clutch disc. and the shift arms on the side of the cover were exclusive to Thunderbird and different on the passenger car. So if you want a T-85 with or without overdrive and do not care if it is close ratio or year correct (They look exactly the same) then use a later one. They are everywhere because most people do not realize how useful they are. Me, I will stay stock. 312T85Bird
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By pegleg - 11 Years Ago
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What were the ratios in the later trans?
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By John Mummert - 11 Years Ago
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Use caution when doing a transmission swap as the length of the input shaft varies. FE and small block input shafts are a little longer than a Y-Block.You should check to see that the input shaft doesn't bottom out in the crankshaft. If it does it WILL destroy your engine.
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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I am not sure what FE engine you are looking at, however I have both 'Y' with 10 & 1" coarse and FE with 23 & 1" Fine and they are the same, but then both are out of passenger cars and not trucks.
312T85Bird
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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The same as '56 & '57 in the passenger cars. The '57 Bird is the only close ratio.
312T85Bird
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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312:
I find in my Ford parts books that '56-'57 passenger and '57 Bird all have the same tooth count on the main drive, cluster, and 1st and 2nd gears. How can they have different ratios?
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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When I have an opportunity to I will post the ratios, the close ratio was a BIRD ONLY OPTION and easily I.D.ed by a ring (groove) cut into the input shaft similar to what you would see on the Muncie used primarily by GM in the '60's and '70's. One must own every FORD and THUNDERBIRD book on earth to get accurate info because as unfortunate as it is most are incomplete and many actually have incorrect information and without the TSB's you won't get the corrections. Most of the guys that knew what was what have left this earth and a lot of things never got passed on except perhaps to someone in their area who has no idea that they may be the only ones knowing this. All this said, many times when someone feels they have been taken by an "Expert" because things are just not quite right the "Expert"may be doing things as he knows them to be done and actually an honest guy.
One tidbit that after almost 50 years working on cars was that The Warner Gear Company states to Never use Hypoid Type Transmission Gear Lube in the Warner Overdrive. I recieved a copy of an old manual just last year and it is in Bold Black Letters. The Hypoid lube that everyone uses is what actually will eventually burn out the planitary gears because it foams too much and will not access the small lube holes. I found a Mobil syn. that will do the job but it took a lot of research.
Hopefully this all makes sense to you.
312T85Bird
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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312:
Interesting post about the lube. I found in my F350 with a Warner T-98, with hypoid lube, I got clash shifting to 3rd and 4th, but with GL1 rated mineral oil it shifted much better. I knew some of the old Warner people, and one of the engineers told me that. My Dad worked at Warner, however he was in the accounting/payroll area, did not really know the mechanics of the designs. He was a real help when I needed parts though, he got the employee discounts.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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A follow-up to my above post. The B-W engineer told me that the hypoid oil was too slick to allow the brass blocking rings to grip the spinning gear enough for good synchronization. That's why the mineral oil worked better.
I knew the late Bill Barnes, who was the engineer responsible for the overdrive. He was a little eccentric in his later years. Dad told me he got a $1 royalty on every overdrive they sold. Maybe that's why he was eccentric. When I knew him he was well into his retirement, but was still getting his royalties.
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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Also good info., thanks for the follow up. The manual did say to use a Mineral type gear lube and I could not find any anywhere in the Country and the most recommended as a Mineral replacement came from Brad penn but only in a five gallon pail for around three hundred bucks. FORD has one and rummor is it is packaged by Penn however I do not know if true or not and FORD only gets thirty eight bucks a Quart.
312T85Bird
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 11 Years Ago
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I found mine last year at my local farm supply store. Came in a 2 1/2 gallon plastic jug in their house brand. Don't remember the price, but it wasn't much more than a jug of their house brand motor oil. GL 1 rated.
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By slumlord444 - 11 Years Ago
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Used plain old 90 w gear lube in mine for years and it was still fine when I finaly pulled it out. Not to say that it would not have eventualy failed.
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By 56ranchwgn - 11 Years Ago
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The BW overdrive manual recommends straight 40w non detergent motor oil.
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By Joe 5bird7 - 11 Years Ago
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For more than 40 yrs I've used SAE 90 in my Tbird T-85 with od. I've worn out a couple engines, but have had no issues with the trans. Out of curiosity I checked the manual for 57 Ford and T-bird and it says to use SAE 80 for manual trans, including overdrive.
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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I am not computer literate enough or I would scan and post the Warner Gear Company manual Especially the DARK PRINT IN LARGER LETTERS about what lubricants to use and not use and then if someone still wants to run what they prefer fine but at least all would know what the actual mfg. of the overdrive and not the car mfg. recommends. Sorta like car mfg's. and Tire mfg's., where the car mfg. wants low pressure for a soft ride not caring about the tire life, etc. and the tire mfg. puts the correct pressure requirement on the side of the tire. I have heard guys say that they have never run more then 25 pounds of air in their tires and never had a problem. Really?
Tom
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By Glen Henderson - 11 Years Ago
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Interesting info here, I don't have any experience with the T85/R11, but I just recently acquired one in the 53 F100 that I am working on. It is aperaently from a later ford car and not a truck. It has find splines and a rear mount on the tailhousing. The overdrive unit has R11 cast into the housing. It looks pretty good except two of the case ears are broken off, I wonder if like John said (longer imput shaft) and someone tried to bolt it down tight. The engine in the old truck was orginal 6 cyl. No matter since this truck is for my wife, or so she says, it is getting a FMX conversion.
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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I'm laughin', Tom...
Even today, any corner lot used car dealer that hasn't adjusted his vehicles' tire pressures lower than the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation likely hasn't been in business long...
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By Oldmics - 11 Years Ago
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I just changed out the fall air to the winter air in all of my vehicles tires.
All run much smoother now.
Oldmics
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By NoShortcuts - 11 Years Ago
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With the cost for air at the corner gas station these days, I hope that you have your own compressor, Oldmics.
Changing the air for the winter is probably a good idea. Moisture in the summer air could cause icing inside the tire.
LOL. -You can tell I've been up too long today!
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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The fine spline T-85 that I have from a '58 FORD with a FE 352 and from a '57 FORD Y 312 have the same length input shafts and will inter change merely by changing the clutch disc. I thing some one may have forced a trans into too small of a pilot bushing?
Tom
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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There are people that actually believe that if you relocate to a different climate or the a higher or lower elevation that you must change the air in your tires!!!!! I think they have this done mostly when they move from anywhere to Washingtom D.C. Sounds about right does it not? LMAO.
Tom
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