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Brake pedal soft on first push...then firms up on second push?

Posted By Big6ft6 13 Years Ago
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Brake pedal soft on first push...then firms up on second push?

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aussiebill
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Grizzly (7/13/2011)
[quote]Big6ft6 (7/13/2011)
I'm 99% sure there are no leaks, I've left her sit for a couple weeks after bleeding the brakes and there isn't a drop of fluid anywhere on the cement under the car, and the level has remained full in the master cylinder. 

/quote]

Nate,

I'll stress again that any leak, no matter how small, will prevent you from getting the pedal pressure that you need. A leak that shows up on the floor is major. A leak that you can only detect by an oily feel by touching a line joint is enough to get air in the system. A brake system must not leak any fluid at all. 

Check for leaks in the system closed by pressing the brake pedal as hard as you can and checking each joint with your hand. Any wet or oily feeling indicates a leak. Keep your hands clean and use a clean cloth to remove and old oil.

.

Cheers

Warren    

Warren, i dont nates arms are that long, lol.Tongue

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

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Grizzly
Posted 13 Years Ago
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 [/quote]Warren, i dont nates arms are that long, lol.Tongue[/quote]

Bill,

w00t Tongue

He should get the general idea. The idea's to get the joint to leak then look.

Cheers

Warren 

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Uploads/Images/41f30774-424d-428d-9c7a-e351.jpg Grizzly (Aussie Mainline)

Big6ft6
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Thanks everyone, I will go back through carefully feeling each joint for greasiness (although everything is covered in oil/grease it seems including my hands and toolsBigGrin).  I'm also worried about air trapped in the master cylinder, when I bled the MC it was in the car, but I used brake lines that went back into the cylinder resevoirs and I jacked up one end of the car to be sure the MC was level...but who knows maybe there is a bubble trapped in there, is that possible?  Or would all the bleeding I've done have gotten any air in the MC out? (I've bled this thing many times now).

The 68 Bronco MC is from the local parts store, I was under the impression all 68 Bronce MCs were all 4-drums.  But it has crossed my mind that maybe it was a front disc MC, what would it feel like if it didn't have the check valve up front?

I'm thinking about fabricating a pressure bleeder using an extra master cylinder cover and installing a tire valve stem or barbed fitting and modifying a small pressurized pump-up sprayer to pressurize the system and keep extra brake fluid so I don't have to keep checking the master cylinder fluid level.  Something similar to this http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/jettatech/bleeder/index.htm.  The master cylinder rear resivoir runs out so quickly I only get four full strokes of the pedal before I have to stop and refill.  Although I hardly need it as the fluid runs out rather freely just from gravity when I open up a bleeder screw.

Nate - Madison, Wisconsin
 
56 Ford Customline Sedan
 

MoonShadow
Posted 13 Years Ago
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There are several pressure bleeder kits available at local parts stores. They run $20 to $100 generally. Or you can get the special bleeder screws that let fluid out but have a one way valve to stop back flow. This is just one example.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Liquid-siphoning-vacuum-pump-kit/_/N-25j2?counter=1&itemIdentifier=70116_0_0_

And the bleeders:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/130461810016?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Hope this helps. Chuck

Y's guys rule!
Looking for McCullouch VS57 brackets and parts. Also looking for 28 Chrysler series 72 parts. And early Hemi parts.

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Big6ft6
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Here is another thought I've been having.  When I re-routed my new brake lines I couldn't exactly  match the path of the original line that goes under the steering stuff to the junction block above the front drivers side wheel, so I took the long route and went behind the steering stuff further back on the frame and then came back up the frame rail to the junction block.  This might be creating an ideal place for air to hang out?  I tried to draw what I did below, my new hardline is in red.  I was worried about this even as I did it, but talked myself into believeing that bleeding the brakes would force enough fluid through to push any air out.  Maybe having someone in the car keeping pressure on the line would get the air out if it is stuck up there?

What do you guys think?  How do you get new brake line to feed under the steering mechanism, it is very little room.



Nate - Madison, Wisconsin
 
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MoonShadow
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Can you take it straight over to the fenderwell and then down? That loop justs looks like a bad thing! w00t My cars not here to look at but I know I didn't have a problem with the steering box. Getting the junction hooked up was TIGHT. Chuck

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Big6ft6
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Thanks for the ideas chuck,

I agree the loop looks bad, but I was doing some more thinking over the lunch hour and the same thing happens at the rear axle straight from the factory, the brake line goes down along the frame rail, then up under the body of the car and then down to the axle through the rear hose so creating a high spot in the line like that shouldn't be a problem, and the length shouldn't be a problem either as the rear brake line is obviously much longer.  So other than looking bad I can't imagine that is my problem.

My little brother is going to meet me at the rental garage this friday so I'll try some 2-man bleeding and maybe together we can firm things up.

Nate - Madison, Wisconsin
 
56 Ford Customline Sedan
 

Eddie Paskey
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Hey Nate   Having your bother help is GOOD NEWS!!!       God Bless    Eddie

Eddie

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aussiebill
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Eddie Paskey (7/14/2011)
Hey Nate   Having your bother help is GOOD NEWS!!!       God Bless    Eddie

Nate, after all this you now mention you are bleeding this by yourself! it can sometimes work if only doing 1 cyl , but you havent a chance the way you,ve been mucking about. with someone applying light but firm pressure to pedal and you cracking the bleeders should have success.Wink

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Hoosier Hurricane
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Nate:

You mentioned that the rear reservoir is only good for 4 pumps before running out.  Is the front reservoir a lot bigger than that?  That to me is a hint that it is a disc/drum master, and as you said, no check valve in the front.

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"
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