Nate

I know this is a bit late now, but I read the whole thread and there was an easy fix for your original problem of the drum being tight on the new shoes that no one mentioned and you wouldn't have to get the drums machined.

Whenever you fit new shoes into a worn drum, you have to file a chamfer on both sides of the new shoes.

The reason for this is that the old shoes have worn into the the drums and there would have been a small lip on both the inner and outer sides of the drums.

The new shoes have square edges (see your photos) and these will not conform to the worn shoulders of the drums, so a simple chamfer with a file will allow the new shoes to sit into the worn section and not bind.



Cheers

Gary

Gary - 1958 Star Customline and 1940 Ford Deluxe Hotrod

Nate,



Keep at it, you will figure it out.



This reminds me of a great story about my first "solo" brake job on my dad's 56 F100 years ago. I replaced the mc (single unit - pretty much what we had back then), wheel cylinders, brake shoes, hardware, turned drums, bearings, seals, etc. I adjusted everything and was satisfied that I had done a good job. No issues with the pedal...felt hard and resistance was quick. So, I took it for a spin before taking the 20 mile trip home. I touched the pedal....WHAM! she stopped on a dime and I locked up all 4 wheels just about. I was a pretty elated teenager as I drove home early that evening to show off to my dad.



Now mind you, during the 20 mile trip, I kept smelling a distinct odor that kept getting stronger and stronger. How I didn't notice the smoke is beyond me. Anyway, I pull into the driveway and park the truck. "Man, that pedal is tight!" I say to myself. As I get out of the truck and walk up to the front door of the house, I see that there is smoke (brake dust, et al) filling all 4 wheel wells of the truck. I took a closer look, and noticed how hot everything was. "uh, oh," I say to myself. I probably got them a little too tight.



About that time, my dad comes out of the house..."What in tarnation! Son, what in the world did you do? Look at your taillights!"



Sure enough, the fluid had gotten so hot that the back pressure to the master cylinder had actuated the brake pressure switch, and my brake lights were kept in the on position. Oh boy, fun days...come a long way since then.



By the way, Hoosier is right about the cam(s) on your backing plate. You do have them. At the top of the backing plate, where the return springs attach to the tit, you will find that in that exact location on the back of the backing plate there is a large nut (maybe 15/16", but don't quote me on that). Loosen the nut and you can actually move the entire deal so that you can adjust tight/loose.



Also, there should be an actual eccentric (round stud that has an off center position) You can also go to the other side of the backing plate to adjust this cam. Once you rotate this cam, you can see how your shoe will go out/in in relation to the axle. Obviously this does not look like much of an adjustment, but it will give you more contact area on the drum.



Do you have a shop manual yet? I would recommend you get one. They are only about $25 or so from most retailers, restoration parts suppliers, and sometimes I have seen them in digital form on ebay (nice to get a pdf file and just print it out, take it to the shop, don't ruin the book, you get the idea)



As nasty as the underside of your car is (we have all been there), you may have a leak somewhere that is shooting fluid up into crud that is sitting somewhere on the frame, rear axle, etc. But, if you had a leak, you should be able to see your brake fluid level drop dramatically after just a few pumps of the pedal. Otherwise, I would start with hoosier's advice.



keep us informed.

Daniel Jessup

Lancaster, California

aka "The Hot Rod Reverend"
check out the 1955 Ford Fairlane build at www.hotrodreverend.com

Nate:

Your posts indicate you have not had the rear brakes apart.  The actuating pin in the wiheel cylinder will not just jump out of an intact brake assembly.  You have mentioned soft pedal, and also the pedal goes slowly to the floor when you hold pressure on it.  Which is it?  If it slowly goes to the floor, and no external leak, then the fluid is bypassing the pressure cup in the master cylinder.

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"

Nate,

I may have been a bit harsh before but we are dealing with your safety and learning off a internet forum is not the best way to learn.

Ron, thanks for your offer I think some hands on mentoring is what Nate needs.

Nate your brake system is under a lot of pressure. Leaks may not appear as drips on the ground clean. Check all the joints that you have made with clean hands look (touch) every joint and if there is any presence of brake fluid you have a leak and you will not be able to get full pressure. Leaks will require tightening with a flange nut spanner. Some of these joints will end up surprisingly tight. You may have to redo double flanges or replace lines If you get some pressure then it drops away you have a leak. 

Just a thought was your M/C new/second hand/reconditioned. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's right. You should have good flow at all wheels.

What have you done to correct the length of your pushrod. A poorly adjusted pedal can give the feeling of spongy brakes. Remember the brake pedal leverage ratio, a lot of travel at the end could be only a few millimeters at the master. Do you get good pressure close to the floor?

Cheers

Warren

Grizzly (Aussie Mainline)

Ron, thanks a ton for the offer!  That is very generous, and I might get to that point.  Right now I just need more time for myself to be at the garage before I waste anyone elses.

It really slows my progress when I can only get out to the car for a couple hours per week (or every other week).  This last time I felt like I was so close, I knew my fronts brakes are sorted out and it occured to me while I was standing in the garage that it has to be something like a disconnected wheel cylinder rod in the rear brakes.  But before I could take off the rear wheels to check, my wife called and said "I hope you're on your way home!".  She said it in that tone of voice that I knew I'd better drop everything and driving like heck towards the homestead! (by the way, my wife is awesome...she lets me keep broken down old cars in the driveway and rent a remote garage to keep more old cars, she mows the lawn and makes great food, she is very patient with me so I'm not complaining!)

All my lines are replace and new with the exception of the two lines on the rear axle, I see no drips or leaks on the ground under the car.  I get good fluid flow at each wheel when bleeding.  But the pedal is so soft and almost goes to the floor after I'm done.  It has to be something obvious like the rear wheel cylinder disconnected that bill mentions, now I can't wait to go check.  I might try to sneak out tonight to go look!

Nate - Madison, Wisconsin

 

56 Ford Customline Sedan

 

Ron, thats nice of you to offer nate some expeirenced help, i couldnt but help thinking if any members or viewers might be able to offer a hand. Bravo.

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

Hi nate,

While i am by no means a brake expert, my wife and i did do our car as a frame off restoration ourselves. Im in wauconda, il, up near fox lake, and what i think is probably a 2 hour or so drive away. My schedule over next few weeks is pretty nuts, but if you like we could try to find a saturday or sunday i can come up and help if you like. Alternately i can pm you my phone # as well. When we did our car, there was nobody around who had any experience to help iron out the details you are facing, so i understand the frustration.

Also, consider getting a motiv products speed bleeder. I dont know what kind of adapter you need for the bronco mc, but it has been a huge help on my car when i flush the brake fluid every 2 years...

Also, in the future, you can use the napa or similar website tto look up part nos and x ref for numbers from your local store. I eventually just ended up ordering almost everything through tee bird products, as i was always sure it would be the right part, and usually fairly priced. The wait for shipping offset the aggravation of wrong parts, etc. For months i would call them every monday or every other and place a parts order, and they always arrived by wed or thurs that week...just a thought.

Rlet me know if you want some help.

Ron.

Ron Grove

Wauconda, IL

Nate, Go Back to square 1, inspect each brake assy,one at a time!  and be sure every component is correct, installed properly, no leaks, refit drum and do next one. Could one of the wheel cyl rods not be located in brake shoe and is just moving back and forth, thus allowing poor pedal pressure? this is easy to do on rear shoes as the park brake spreader plate covers it. good luck.

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

Bill I'm too nervous at this point to drive, the pedal slowly goes all the way the floor.  Just like before, when I adjusted the front brakes pretty tight I did get a little more firmness at the very end (3 inches from the pedal hitting the floor) but just a little improvement. I also think one of my two new wheel cylinders might be leaking.

When I was switching the pads around to correct my mis-installation. I noticed what looks like a small amount of brake fluid running down the backing plate on the front driver's side. this is a brand new wheel cylinder, so this would be very frustrating if it is leaking but I'm afraid it might be.  Speaking of wheel cylinders what should I do with the old ones?  There was no core charge when I bought my new ones.  It seems a shame to throw this in the recycling bin.

I also need to look more closely at the rear brakes again now that I've gained so much knowledge on how these brakes are supposed to be set up.  I'm wondering if way back when I first pulled the rear drums off somehow one of the wheel cylinder rods came off the shoe or something. Something just isn't right, the fluid is going somewhere when I push on the pedal.  It is either leaking insde a rear drum brake and not come out on the floor yet, or something is expanding that isn't supposed to be (or both).

It just drives me crazy that only get an hour or two and then I'm called home, so I don't get a chance to look into everything.  Now I'm just left 8 miles from the car to hypothesize with my laptop. This is why I need this form as my therapy for when I can't actually go work on the car.

On a positive note, I've taken the brakes apart so many times now, what used to be a dreaded gask I can almost do in my sleep in about 90 seconds!

Nate - Madison, Wisconsin

 

56 Ford Customline Sedan

 

Nate, why not try a cautious drive around your area, allowing time and distance to pull up behind traffic, only continue if it feels safe to do so, then readjust all the brakes and note if pedal pressure feels better. regards bill.

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia