Pops i know this might sound odd but be sure timing light is connected on #1 lead.

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

Okay guys, thanks again for riding this out with me.



I'll dig into the dissy to confirm the connection of the ground wire. I did check the order of the plug wires and they are correct and my timing light is on #1 cylinder if it is the front passenger side (North America).



I have a couple of pics that illustrates my tests this afternoon:







Brought the car to operating temperature before conducting the tests.

You will note the idle speed is 550rpms

The dissy vacuum hose is disconnected from the carb and the carb side is plugged.

I connected the vacuum gauge to a port at the bottom of the carb. At 550 rpms it reads ~21

Next you will see I'm on the timing mark at 550 rpms. at this rpm it is reading 16.3 degrees advanced



















I then brought the rpms up to ~2500

Dissy vacuum REMAINS disconnected.

Timing advances centrifugally to 24.2

I then reconnected the vacuum advance

Last reading with the timing mark lined up is 44.4 degrees total advance @ 2500rpm.

pops (AKA) Clay

'56 Thunderbird

Clay

Somewhat confused by WHERE you are getting the degree of advance numbers from

16.3 and 44.4. Are these from the timing light display?

Where is the engine timing tag pointer  points at white mark on pulley when the number one cylinder fires, engine at 550 RPM? This should be where the 8 to 10 degrees initial advance is set.

Vaccum reading will only be of value if it is engine MANIFOLD vacuum NOT CARB PORTED VACUUM.

At idle your distributor mechanical advance is close to ZERO  so set your timing light display to what advance you set at the pulley timing mark ( by turning the distributor)  Pete

Hi Clay - I just got back from Wyo and saw this thread - and off this eve to San Diego....but.....have you checked out the float settings of that carb? Didn't see it mentioned. As the level drops - the carb leans out (and surges) - and recently I've had a ton of trouble with gunk (and alcohol) in the gas goofing up needle and seat settings.

Also - the Pertronix "Ignitor" model uno will work OK without the ballast resistor - and not hurt the gounding transistor - if the coil primary is over 1.5 OHMs. Are you running the original style of 12v coil?

 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona

I would tend to follow Steve's advice, or maybe go back and read Ted's post (carb first, then the rest of it). I would almost think that the surging and bogging would be carb related. I have had ignition troubles before, but have never had the symptoms you are describing to us. Not trying to muddy the water here, but the carb would be my first place to start.

Of course, when you got that reading of 55 degrees advance, I would imagine that chasing the ignition would be the first thing on your mind.

All of your troubles happen under load right, never under "park" or "neutral" trans conditions? That's why I would be thinking carb issue first.

Hope it works out for you...keep us updated with those great pics!

Daniel Jessup

Lancaster, California

aka "The Hot Rod Reverend"
check out the 1955 Ford Fairlane build at www.hotrodreverend.com

Pete and all,



This is the first time I have used this type of timing light. It has an up and a down arrow and a button marked RPM/Adv, that toggles between being a tach and a timing light.



After attaching the tach wires to the battery and #1 plug wire I then use the timing light and the up/down arrows to get the TDC (white mark) to line up with the pointer. Wile I"m pressing the up or down arrows I can see the TDC mark move one way or the other. And during this time the numbers are changing on the readout on the gun. Once the TDC mark is lined up with the pointer I read the number on the display.



I did turn the distributor to achieve the 16.6 degree timing with the Pointer at the TDC mark. (I'm thinking the timing gun has a built in advance/retard circuit to change the timing of the flashes. This allows one to line up the TDC mark with the pointer with the built in timing difference in the flash. I suspect if one attached a standard timing light it would show the TDC mark well advanced of the pointer. At least that is my understanding of this timing light. If I'm wrong someone please slap me, and set me straight.



I'm guessing that is the advance. As I increase the throttle the TDC mark moves upward and by again using the up/down arrows the display changes (upward) and the TDC mark comes back to the pointer. I then read the display and see what I'm guessing to be the advance either centrifugal or vacuum or both.



I may be doing a rather poor job of explaining this, I'm sorry for that.



A 30 minute test run after the settings in the photos were made showed improvement. The hesitation is still there, but the sluggishness/bogging seems to have subsided. Still have the surging, but at least I'm back where I started.



Hi Steve, I have not done anything on the carburetor. Now that the car seems to be back the where it was earlier, I may place some focus on the carburetor next. The only thing I have done was look at what size the discharge nozzle was and it is a #31.



Question: I have a new Ignitor II and coil. I suspect most would advise to get the carburetor issues worked out firs, but would there be any benefit in swapping out the Ignitor I for the Ignitor II first?

pops (AKA) Clay

'56 Thunderbird

Pops- For what it's worth, every time I've had the issue at cruising speed you've described, I later realized it was the fuel pump telling me it was getting weak. This new gasoline is really hard on them, so they don't last as long as they used to. Also, everything I've read seems to indicate the Y fuel pumps are marginal at best. Good Luck /Duck

BOO- YA!!!

Clay

First do check the distributor internal grounding strap Mark talked about.

Do not try a new Pertronix and/or coil until the engine timing is set right. At this point I think that you should consider "STATIC TIMING" your engine. IE, with the engine not running. Do a Google search to find out how.

With the engine off and number 1 cylinder at TDC and the timing mark on the pulley lined up at the white paint mark ( whether it is TDC or 8BTDC or 12BTDC or whatever ) this value should show in your timing lite display AT IDLE and WITH THE VACUUM ADVANCE DIS-CONNECTED.

So if the pulley and pointer are at ZERO or TDC then you should see ZERO on the dial of the timing lite. Or 8 or 12 or whatever.

After you get this straightened out then back to the problem.

My experience is electrical faults are ON/OFF, runs or will not run and this leaves the carb to be sorted out. Pete

I'll see where I can tap in to gauge the fuel pressure. Is 7 PSI about reasonable? I will also check the ground wire in the distributor. Did read up on static timing. Am I only trying to confirm the mark on the pulley is TDC with this procedure?

pops (AKA) Clay

'56 Thunderbird

Clay

You wrote

" Did read up on static timing. Am I only trying to confirm the mark on the pulley is TDC with this procedure? "

ER, no. You are setting the inital timing. Ford put marks on the pulley so you will know when the number one cylinder is at TDC and after 360 of crankshaft rotation at the top of its stroke but this is not TDC because the valves are not closed. After another 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation number one cylinder is again at TDC and the distributor should be turned so that the spark fires now and goes to the number one spark plug. The other marks on the pulley are to allow you to adjust the initial timing. That is why static timing works. Nothing is moving except the distributor to cause it to fire at whatever point you have the pulley mark and the timing pointer at.

If you set it to fire at exactly TDC you have set ZEO advance and your initial engine  timing is 0 ( zero). If you set your initial timing at 8-10 degrees BTDC (before TDC) your initial timing is set to 8-10 BTDC
 

Pete