Bill ,

Thanks for reminding me about the Nitrided gears .Had a slight fitment problem with the Vicky .From memory it was .003 .I tried to phone my mate Scott Sterling  today to see if they are still being made ,will try again tomorrow .

Lon

yblocksdownunder

Hi, here in Australia , the 1st 292,s were in 59 f600 trucks, there was the fabled HD 292 in some and resulted in the steel crank, rods, and double row timing chain mentioned earlier,the hunt was allways on for one of these, and could mostly be identified by spider wheels and 2 speed diff. I,M not sure taking the theory of these chain differences to the finest point achieves much, ford surely wouldnt have designed the double row setup at the time if it was,nt suitable. but i,ve ran em all for 40 yrs and nowadays we just dont do the everyday miles we did as teenagers etc. just a note on Rollmaster chains, be aware the Nitrided version crank gear requires a light polishing to fit to crank as size has shrunk due to the treatment. Regards aussiebill.

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

I noticed on the Elgin timing gear seat the Ford part#s the prefix B6T indicates a truck application.Were the larger trucks with a Y-block manufactured with the double wide timing gear set originally hence the "heavy duty" designation? 

  

A timing BELT to replace the gears and chain/rollers?



That would be some tiny little belt! do you have a link to a picture?



I guess the "other" choice (since no one has mentioned it) would be a gearset.



Most people don't like them because they're noisy and adds to the "moving parts" count.....





Hmm,



Found one on EBAY $500 or so. Found a few more on the net via a search.....$1000 or more for the kit.



Sort of makes it pretty expensive. I wonder if it would be worth it. Someone of course, would have to make them for the Y. With the limited number it would be like aluminum heads.....the production run would be small and prohibitively expensive...... People probably wouldn't buy them...





Cheers,





Rick


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1955 F-600/272/E4OD// Disclaimer: No animals were injured while test driving my F-600 except the ones I ran over intentionally!

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This post was created using OpenSuSE Linux x64 and Firefox

Rollmaster timing chains are (were ? ) made here in Qld .I heard a rumor that they were not making any more for Y-Blocks . I used one in the Vicky and the Rod .I'll try and find out if production has stopped .

Why hasn't someone made a timing belt for Y-blocks .You can get them for SBF and that other brand ,so why not for Y-Blocks ??????????? I don't see a big difference .

Lon

yblocksdownunder

Thank you Ted. Always very informative.



Three items;



Spark scatter - seems like a crank trigger would help in that area. But I would be more concerned with 'cam scatter', or the inaccuracy of the valve events due to the chain jumping around.



Chain tension - I worked on a Toyota 18R that had a very long timing chain. It has a tensioner that pushes a shoe against the long stretch of chain. Smokey Yunick talks about watching the timing chain on a Scrub jumping around like a snake at 7000 RPMs. (Wow, talk about spark scatter). I still don't understand why there aren't aftermarket chain tensioners for V8's. Seems like a simple idea.



Oiling - only the passenger side has an overflow tube that dumps out to the timing chain. Perhaps the driver's side could be pressurized and the passenger side left to flow.



Also oiling, my 56 Fairlane with a Thunderbird 292 V8 came stock with a little tray that bolted underneath the chain to help direct oil onto the chain. Any issue with that? Seems like a roller chain would especially benefit from good lubrication.



And finally, the passenger side overflow tube just directs oil down a hole in the head. Perhaps an extension of that tube that continues through the valley and out the front, over the chain would be helpful.



Speaking of over the chain, perhaps it would be helpful to modify the front of the block to ensure that oil lands on the chain, not just flow down past the chain.



Oh, and an afterthought - beehive springs run at lower pressures. Seems like that would play into the whole chain-stretch equation. Also, lightened valve train components reduce spring pressure requirements; titanium retainers, aluminum rockers, titanium pushrods, hollow lifters.

Best regards,



Paul Menten

Meridian, Idaho

Hey guys, interesting thread, one thing I know is I never stop learning reading these threads, there is a wealth of espertise here. I purchased a double roller from Mummert a rollmaster product, and like other comments in this thread it was tight to get on the shaft and very little slack once installed.



I would check that they have supplied a correct part, as i commented mine was not slack at all.



Hope this helps,


1957 ________________ Ford

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(@)________V__________(@)

[________I_____I_________]

__[__]__ o_______o___[__]___



Y Blocks, The New Flathead!

If your main bearing caps and saddles have not been altered by align-boring, a stock chain set should work just fine.  I don't know why your new chain should be sloppy.  New chains I installed were 'a fight' to get the cam sprocket on the camshaft (then you have that confounded cam key or bushing to contend with).
Perhaps you got ahold of a non-stock, or wrong chain set.  Again, new timing sets are tight.

For an align-bored block, it wouldn't take much for the factory to oversize the sprockets to correct for a sloppy chain.

Royal Oak, Michigan (Four miles north of Detroit, and 12 miles NORTH of Windsor, Canada).  That's right, we're north of Canada.

Ford 292 Y-Block major overhaul by simplyconnected

the thing is, my block is not align bored, I dont know why it has that much slack in the chain, I am gonna email rollmaster and see if i can get the shorter chain only before i try a new stock HP set.



also, how do i determent slack vs length to purchase?



when I swap out to the lighter springs i made sure the weight pivot freely, and i have verified with a timing light that at 500 rpm the weights are not moving, so the only thing i can think of now its the slack of the chain. or there might be too much backlash on the disturbitor gear

I'm not a salesman, but I occasionally buy & sell items on eBay (never timing chains, eBay name: simplyconnected).  I'm a Ford restorer, relentlessly searching for better products and methods for our common 'labor of love,' restoring Fords.

Some restorers are nearly militant about keeping everything 'bone stock.'  That's not me, I like electric WS wipers, disk brakes, and I'd never dream of loading up my family in the '59 and running the freeway with bias-ply tires and no seatbelts.

I am grateful for this forum, where restorers freely help other restorers in their passion.  You guys have a treasure-trove of experience, resources, and talent, and I am very pleased to be welcomed here.

HoLun, I simply called Tee-Bird Products in Pennsylvania (800) 423-3723, and spoke with Salesman, Ellis.  He hooked me up with this American-made timing chain set, out of Elgin Illinois:

I probably paid too much, I don't know, but I think Tee-Bird is in the ballpark.
My engine machine shop owner had a Millings catalog listing for this timing chain number, but NOT the sprockets (very strange).  Millings calls it "heavy duty."  We'll see.

Hoosier, this is America!  We're all free to exercise our personal preferences.  If you like link chains, everyone carries them at a very reasonable price.  Enjoy.

Ted, you have a wealth of background and knowledge regarding timing chains.  Thank You for sharing your experiences, testing and using both chain types.  I believe the more info we all get, the better we can make educated choices.  I too, remember the days when cam sprockets were 'nylon.'  After years of heat and stress, the polymers would bake out, they broke apart, and pistons tried closing valves.  GM was the first, Ford followed.  It wasn't pretty.  If that wasn't ugly enough, Ford used rubber timing belts, starting with Pinto in '71, and Escort in '81.  I owned both.

Rick, I agree.  This was an 'unknown' engine I bought from a man parting out his '59 Galaxie in the Boston area.  He drove the car into his shop, put it up on a hoist, and after noticing extensive frame rot, decided to part the car out.  I bought the engine, Cruise-o-Matic, steering column, brake pedal support, and driveshaft.  He threw in a T&C radio and all the linkage.  After engine teardown, the lower end looked beautiful, but I bored the cylinders .060"

My stock 1959 292 was oil-starved in two areas, rocker arm shafts (and all the rocker arms), and timing chain.  Those little tubes did a good job of diverting oil away from the rocker arms and down the holes.  Consequently, dirt and varnish plugged all the rocker arm holes because oil pressure was at atomspheric (zero).  This was a stock 292 Cleveland Engine.  McTim's video convinced me to plug those tube holes with NO relief holes, which forces oil through all the rocker arms.  The old timing chain sprocket pictures shown above, speak for themselves.

But this is a new day.  Romeo and Windsor modular engines have always used roller chains; 4-valve engines use four, two long and two short.  For sixteen years I beat the crap out of my 351W, fitted with a roller chain (on Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, driving daily to Ford Rouge, Dearborn).  Wear: negligible.  Certainly not nearly as bad as every link chain I ever owned, regardless of brand.

Certainly, today's time proven technology with better materials are far superior to the resources they had back in the '50's.  Ford's accomplishments were amazing, considering what they had to work with.

Dave Dare
Ford Motor Co., Dearborn

Royal Oak, Michigan (Four miles north of Detroit, and 12 miles NORTH of Windsor, Canada).  That's right, we're north of Canada.

Ford 292 Y-Block major overhaul by simplyconnected