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Initial start after rebuild

Posted By Brent 3 Years Ago
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Florida_Phil
Posted 3 Years Ago
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I'm using a Carter FE fuel pump on my Y-Block.  Works great. Go on the Summit Racing website and use the engine specific search on the top right of the home page. Enter Y-Block and it will tell you what parts will work.


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KULTULZ
Posted 3 Years Ago
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Now this is IMO -

Ted, you over ride me if necessary,

"I will run 5 ½ qt of conventional Valvoline 10-40 with 1 bottle of ZDDP and a WIX filter for the first 20 min and then let engine heat cycle overnight, I will drain and inspect and cut the filter open, and then fill with the same mix for the second 20 min run. After these two runs I think I will use half a bottle of ZDDP.

I will fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mix, using the heater tube behind the thermostat. Is there any benefit to remove the thermostat for initial start? I’m not sure the thermostat in the engine has an air bleed hole."

If you have been following current tech, there are a lot of flat tappet cam/lifter failures. You need a quality break-in oil (say GIBBS) for run in. After run in, drop and fill with a high zinc racing oil and run for say 500 miles and then drop and use a street oil of your choice (higher zinc than common present street oil) . Now so-called RACING OILS have a very low detergent/dispersant package(s) as they tend to cause aeration of the oil at HI-RPM's. So it (let's say VALVOLINE VR-1 RACING OIL) has to have more frequent oil changes.  I have never understood adding a can of additive as how many cycles will it take to mix with the oil if it does mix? The zinc has to be there for first fire. The oil needs to be blended from the refinery.

It has to first fire as pro-longed cranking will wipe the lobes of assembly lube. After that happens a second crank will be somewhat dry and you know where that will lead.

You want the coolant thermostat as the engine needs heat for the parts to expand and wear in. I would use distilled water. If you find a leak, it will be easier to deal with.

Just run her in and listen for noise(s) and watch oil pressure and coolant temp.

Simply put, you don't want a street oil for break-in.





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KULTULZ
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... sigh ...



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Brent
Posted 3 Years Ago
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I'm open minded and considering all options. Gibbs "Driven Racing Oil" (still Gibbs right) could still be used. Thank you for your valuable input. A Masters competitor/winner, once said: Oil conversation is touchy. Us newbies have to learn somehow, and sometimes innovation happens...



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.150 Stroked Y-Block:327.25 ci @ >1hp per ci
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KULTULZ
Posted 3 Years Ago
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You are quite welcome.

As long as the cam/lifters wore in correctly, you are OK. Too late for break-in oil.



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Brent
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How do you check to see the lifters are all rotating?


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.150 Stroked Y-Block:327.25 ci @ >1hp per ci
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/ad7450e6-bad8-43db-880a-5d81.jpg http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/c63fa8b7-8d46-4b6f-91a4-19d8.jpg

KULTULZ
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The easiest (IMO) way is to mark the top of the push-rods with white marker and while idling watch for movement/rotation. Increase idle speed and continue watching.

If one (or more) is not rotating you will need to go into to find out why. Now this should have been done at run-in. If one is not turning, you need to shut it down and find out why.

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Please tell me after proper run-in you dropped the break-in oil. It is going to be full of trash.



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Ted
Posted 3 Years Ago
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Brent (12/18/2022)
I mixed the ZDDP additive into the oil vigorously, I had the same thought about the blending. Now it is a custom Ferguson break in oil. Gibbs does not list zinc and phosphorous levels in their blends, Valvoline and ZDDP do. I am comfortable with the Brent blend.

RE: did not get the initial 20 done. 10 seconds cranking total and 30 running. 1/2 cup leaked from valve covers going on and off.

Any thoughts about adding a bit of something to the 1/2 cup? Or any other advice.... 


Here’s my two cents on the subject and additional comments always welcome.  The following comes from Fifty plus years of engine assembly experience but I haven’t seen it all yet.


Watching the pushrods while the engine is running is just one way to determine that the lifters are rotating.  Prior to starting an engine, I check for lifter rotation during the cam degree in process before any pressure is applied to the lifters.  When rotating the engine while degreeing in the camshaft, the lifters can be observed for that rotation.  If you have adequate lifter to bore clearance, lifter rotation will be there assuming an adequate rake angle on the cam lobe and correct radius on the lifter face.

I find that lifter to bore clearances are the number one reason for camshaft failures.  Some of that is attributed to a wider range of lifter diameter tolerances while other failures are simply a failure to ensure that the lifter bores are clean and not rusty.  It pays to do a micrometer check of the lifters and the lifter bores prior to starting the engine assembly.  Lifter/bore clearance is easy enough to correct before assembling the engine if a problem there is found.

Not all camshafts are ground the same.  Inadequate rake angle on the lobes will inhibit lifter rotation and cause an immediate camshaft lobe failure.  There are brands of camshafts out there that are sloppy in that regard, and I’ll not use them at all.  If there are eight guys working at a cam grinding shop but only one is not doing due diligence in maintaining the stone on the cam grinder, he’s giving his company a bad name in reference to the number of camshafts that fail.  I’ll not post the names of those companies, but I’ll be happy to discuss those on the phone.  While it’s cumbersome to do so, it pays to check the lobe taper on all the lobes before installing the camshaft.

The first 5-20 seconds of running are the most critical for cam lobe / liter break in.  The brand of oil and the zinc content are only minor considerations during that time frame; the zine/phosphorus (ZDDP) content comes into play during the long haul or many thousands of miles later.  Keep in mind that there are different forms of zinc for the various engine oils, and they are designed for different applications.  The zinc used in the oil for diesel engines is different than the zinc used in gasoline engine oil besides the overall additive packages being different in each of those oils.

I do have a low opinion of some of the break in oils out there and that comes from conversations with my Nascar associates that deal with flat tappet camshafts with extreme amounts of valve spring pressures.  While some of the break in oils do advertise an adequate amount of ZDDP, the base stock of the oil is not of the highest quality and creates other problems.

The shear property of the oil is important as there must be enough shear in the oil to promote lifter rotation.  As a general rule, you want an oil with at least 30 in its weight classification to ensure enough shear in the oil for promoting lifter rotation.

I’ve posted this link before but I’ll post it again.  It’s the list of contributing factors for cam / lifter failures in no particular order.
Camshaft and Lifter Failure Causes – Eaton Balancing


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


Brent
Posted 3 Years Ago
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Do you run without valve covers the first 20 min run in? I have thought about cutting the tops of a couple of valve covers. You mention watching while idling then bring up the rpms, I have read that immediate ignition then hold at 2000 rpm is a path to success. 
RB: talks about witness marks on the lifters here, the lifter you are holding is damaged right? He also mentions the use of worn out or lifter springs during beak in,


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.150 Stroked Y-Block:327.25 ci @ >1hp per ci
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/ad7450e6-bad8-43db-880a-5d81.jpg http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/c63fa8b7-8d46-4b6f-91a4-19d8.jpg

Ted
Posted 3 Years Ago
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Definitely run with the valve covers in place.  When running the engine at sufficient rpm to break the camshaft in, there will be a lot oil being thrown around.  While not necessary in most instances, I do have some valve covers here for the various engines with clear inserts so that the valve train can be monitored during running on the dyno.  Very few problems with camshafts breaking in here when due diligence is done with pre-assembly details.


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)




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