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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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I am finally ready to start my engine; it was rebuilt 3 years ago. It has been stored with the plugs installed and in a controlled environment. I plan to manually spin the oil pump to get everything lubed.
Is there anything else that should be done prior to starting the engine?
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By DryLakesRacer - 3 Years Ago
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Wire everything, make sure coolant is up and correct as you will be wanting the engine to run 20 + minutes.
Distributors 180* out seem to be a nemesis but actually should never happen if you watch the valves of #1 operate with the rocker cover off. I fully prime a carb with a funnel and hose and make sure the accelerator pump squirts. You don’t want to crank the engine, you want it to start quickly and stay running.
I also do a quick check with the key on to see voltage at the coil before first crank. Be able to adjust the timing while the engine runs at 2000 rpm. If it’s at 25* or close you are probably fine. Make sure your trans is ready too. Good luck and have fun. Remember it will stink as oil burns and paint cures.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 3 Years Ago
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Throttle lock to hold the revs up? Exhaust hoses (if garaged)? Carb filled? Water-only coolant (in case of leaks/suppress break-in overheating)? Stethoscope (to detect valve gear failure before more severe damage can occur)?
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By one piece at a time - 3 Years Ago
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Make sure you have FRESH oil with proper amount of zinc. Especially if that oil has been in the engine 3 years To much zinc is as bad as not enough.
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By paul2748 - 3 Years Ago
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When I break in an engine, I put a fan in front of the radiator as an extra source of fresh air besides the items mentioned above.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Be sure you have fresh fuel in the tank. Old fuel will gum up the valves and will not be obvious until the engine cools back down and is then restarted.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Also prefill the carburetor with fuel before attempting to start the engine. It’s important that the engine fire up right away and not having to grind on it for any appreciable length of time to fill the carburetor.
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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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Upon checking the power to the coil: Ignition wire/12.8 v to coil is off for a split second when the key is between start and run. Both IGN and ST lugs are hot in the start position. Should I be concerned about the split second the IGN is off during the key/switch movement from start, back to the run position?
I’m a little concerned about the fuel line from the tank being dry. I wonder how many pumps it will take to get fuel to the carb and where does the air go? I will fill both bowls of the Brawler with a funnel.
I will run 5 ½ qt of conventional Valvoline 10-40 with 1 bottle of ZDDP and a WIX filter for the first 20 min and then let engine heat cycle overnight, I will drain and inspect and cut the filter open, and then fill with the same mix for the second 20 min run. After these two runs I think I will use half a bottle of ZDDP.
I will fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mix, using the heater tube behind the thermostat. Is there any benefit to remove the thermostat for initial start? I’m not sure the thermostat in the engine has an air bleed hole.
I will spin the oil pump up to 2700 rpm with my drill in reverse.
I will have fans for air movement
I have extra dented valve covers. Is it practical to cut the tops off to be able to see the rockers running?
Awesome Reference: THANKS!!!
Camshaft and Lifter Failure Causes – Eaton Balancing
Fuel System Priming
Breaking in a Rebuilt Engine
Finally breaking in the cam FAQ
Should I use any additives such as ZDDP on a newly rebuilt Y-block?
coolant
Lost another cam
Break in procedure
Break in Oil
PENZOIL MOTOR OIL
prep and start
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Brent (10/1/2022)
I’m a little concerned about the fuel line from the tank being dry. I wonder how many pumps it will take to get fuel to the carb and where does the air go? I will fill both bowls of the Brawler with a funnel.
Assuming the fuel pump and lines are in good condition and properly hooked up, then filling up both bowls of the carburetor is expected to provide sufficient run time for the engine to allow the air to be purged from the mechanical fuel system and start providing fuel before the carburetor runs dry. Any air in the fuel line pumps up to the carb and is dispersed thru the vents. Another option is to unhook the inlet side fuel line from the fuel pump and put a suction on that line to get the fuel up to the fuel pump before initially firing up the engine. That will shorten up the time for the fuel to get to the carburetor.
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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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Finally turned the key: first try we were off a tooth, second try it fired up for the time it took to run the carb dry, refilled the bowls and again the carb ran dry before fuel from tank made it, checked fuel pump then pulled it and bench tested. BAD FUEL PUMP (Brand New)!
I have the engine filled with conventional Valvoline 10-40 and 1 bottle of ZDDP, this combo has plenty of Zinc and Phosphorous. We cranked the engine for less than 10 seconds and it ran for around 30 seconds. I guess that the assembly lube has been wiped off, so I am wondering what the best way is to succeed at this point. Maybe add extra ZDDP for the next start?
Which is the best fuel pump? I don't need any vacuum ports.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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I'm using a Carter FE fuel pump on my Y-Block. Works great. Go on the Summit Racing website and use the engine specific search on the top right of the home page. Enter Y-Block and it will tell you what parts will work.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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Now this is IMO -
Ted, you over ride me if necessary,
"I will run 5 ½ qt of conventional Valvoline 10-40 with 1 bottle of ZDDP and a WIX filter for the first 20 min and then let engine heat cycle overnight, I will drain and inspect and cut the filter open, and then fill with the same mix for the second 20 min run. After these two runs I think I will use half a bottle of ZDDP.
I will fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mix, using the heater tube behind the thermostat. Is there any benefit to remove the thermostat for initial start? I’m not sure the thermostat in the engine has an air bleed hole."
If you have been following current tech, there are a lot of flat tappet cam/lifter failures. You need a quality break-in oil (say GIBBS) for run in. After run in, drop and fill with a high zinc racing oil and run for say 500 miles and then drop and use a street oil of your choice (higher zinc than common present street oil) . Now so-called RACING OILS have a very low detergent/dispersant package(s) as they tend to cause aeration of the oil at HI-RPM's. So it (let's say VALVOLINE VR-1 RACING OIL) has to have more frequent oil changes. I have never understood adding a can of additive as how many cycles will it take to mix with the oil if it does mix? The zinc has to be there for first fire. The oil needs to be blended from the refinery.
It has to first fire as pro-longed cranking will wipe the lobes of assembly lube. After that happens a second crank will be somewhat dry and you know where that will lead.
You want the coolant thermostat as the engine needs heat for the parts to expand and wear in. I would use distilled water. If you find a leak, it will be easier to deal with.
Just run her in and listen for noise(s) and watch oil pressure and coolant temp.
Simply put, you don't want a street oil for break-in.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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... sigh ...
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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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I'm open minded and considering all options. Gibbs "Driven Racing Oil" (still Gibbs right) could still be used. Thank you for your valuable input. A Masters competitor/winner, once said: Oil conversation is touchy. Us newbies have to learn somehow, and sometimes innovation happens...
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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You are quite welcome.
As long as the cam/lifters wore in correctly, you are OK. Too late for break-in oil.
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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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How do you check to see the lifters are all rotating?
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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The easiest (IMO) way is to mark the top of the push-rods with white marker and while idling watch for movement/rotation. Increase idle speed and continue watching.
If one (or more) is not rotating you will need to go into to find out why. Now this should have been done at run-in. If one is not turning, you need to shut it down and find out why.
Please tell me after proper run-in you dropped the break-in oil. It is going to be full of trash.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Brent (12/18/2022)
I mixed the ZDDP additive into the oil vigorously, I had the same thought about the blending. Now it is a custom Ferguson break in oil. Gibbs does not list zinc and phosphorous levels in their blends, Valvoline and ZDDP do. I am comfortable with the Brent blend.
RE: did not get the initial 20 done. 10 seconds cranking total and 30 running. 1/2 cup leaked from valve covers going on and off.
Any thoughts about adding a bit of something to the 1/2 cup? Or any other advice....
Here’s my two cents on the subject and additional comments always welcome. The following comes from Fifty plus years of engine assembly experience but I haven’t seen it all yet.
Watching the pushrods while the engine is running is just one way to determine that the lifters are rotating. Prior to starting an engine, I check for lifter rotation during the cam degree in process before any pressure is applied to the lifters. When rotating the engine while degreeing in the camshaft, the lifters can be observed for that rotation. If you have adequate lifter to bore clearance, lifter rotation will be there assuming an adequate rake angle on the cam lobe and correct radius on the lifter face.
I find that lifter to bore clearances are the number one reason for camshaft failures. Some of that is attributed to a wider range of lifter diameter tolerances while other failures are simply a failure to ensure that the lifter bores are clean and not rusty. It pays to do a micrometer check of the lifters and the lifter bores prior to starting the engine assembly. Lifter/bore clearance is easy enough to correct before assembling the engine if a problem there is found.
Not all camshafts are ground the same. Inadequate rake angle on the lobes will inhibit lifter rotation and cause an immediate camshaft lobe failure. There are brands of camshafts out there that are sloppy in that regard, and I’ll not use them at all. If there are eight guys working at a cam grinding shop but only one is not doing due diligence in maintaining the stone on the cam grinder, he’s giving his company a bad name in reference to the number of camshafts that fail. I’ll not post the names of those companies, but I’ll be happy to discuss those on the phone. While it’s cumbersome to do so, it pays to check the lobe taper on all the lobes before installing the camshaft.
The first 5-20 seconds of running are the most critical for cam lobe / liter break in. The brand of oil and the zinc content are only minor considerations during that time frame; the zine/phosphorus (ZDDP) content comes into play during the long haul or many thousands of miles later. Keep in mind that there are different forms of zinc for the various engine oils, and they are designed for different applications. The zinc used in the oil for diesel engines is different than the zinc used in gasoline engine oil besides the overall additive packages being different in each of those oils.
I do have a low opinion of some of the break in oils out there and that comes from conversations with my Nascar associates that deal with flat tappet camshafts with extreme amounts of valve spring pressures. While some of the break in oils do advertise an adequate amount of ZDDP, the base stock of the oil is not of the highest quality and creates other problems.
The shear property of the oil is important as there must be enough shear in the oil to promote lifter rotation. As a general rule, you want an oil with at least 30 in its weight classification to ensure enough shear in the oil for promoting lifter rotation.
I’ve posted this link before but I’ll post it again. It’s the list of contributing factors for cam / lifter failures in no particular order.
Camshaft and Lifter Failure Causes – Eaton Balancing
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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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Do you run without valve covers the first 20 min run in? I have thought about cutting the tops of a couple of valve covers. You mention watching while idling then bring up the rpms, I have read that immediate ignition then hold at 2000 rpm is a path to success.
RB: talks about witness marks on the lifters here, the lifter you are holding is damaged right? He also mentions the use of worn out or lifter springs during beak in,
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Definitely run with the valve covers in place. When running the engine at sufficient rpm to break the camshaft in, there will be a lot oil being thrown around. While not necessary in most instances, I do have some valve covers here for the various engines with clear inserts so that the valve train can be monitored during running on the dyno. Very few problems with camshafts breaking in here when due diligence is done with pre-assembly details.
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By Brent - 3 Years Ago
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I have finally completed two 20-minute runs at 2000 rpm, under no load - temp 185 - oil 50 psi. There are no sounds out of the ordinary. After first 20 I dropped the oil and cut open the filter, there was no sign of metal. Headers nearly melted plug wire boots, I have ordered heat shields. There is no smoke coming from the valley or the exhaust.
Is there any concern if I continue by running the engine on the stands at idle and cranking, it has not been placed under load yet? I need to bleed the power steering which requires cranking without starting and I want to fine tune the fuel and ignition systems and adjust the valve lash.
Many Thanks for all of your help.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Brent (12/26/2022)
... Is there any concern if I continue by running the engine on the stands at idle and cranking, it has not been placed under load yet? I need to bleed the power steering which requires cranking without starting and I want to fine tune the fuel and ignition systems and adjust the valve lash.
Without putting the engine under a load, there is the risk of ‘glazing’ the cylinder walls which will prolong the piston ring break-in. Even once the initial run in is performed, it’s still recommended to fast idle the engine when running it in lieu of just a slow idle if it’s necessary to just be cranking up the engine before hitting the road with it.
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