Profile Picture

292 build questions

Posted By 1946international Last Month
You don't have permission to rate!
Author
Message
1946international
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Turbocharged

Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 28, Visits: 2.5K
I just got my block ('57 292) back from the machine shop and will start to slowly put it back together. I know there are many mods that people do to the Y block most had to do with the oiling system, so I would like to get a plan on what to do with my motor and have it all in one place. so everyone feel free to chime in on their thoughts on any or all of the following.

1. should I close off the drain tubes on the rockers?
2. if I do block off the drain tubes, should I drill the small hole in the block at the cam plate?
3. I think I have heard about a "better" cam bearing that I should buy, what brand is that? The harder bearing that will not let the groove close up. and what about cutting a groove under the bearing, in the block itself?
4. I have a book that shows drilling holes close to the tappet bores in the valley to let oil drain down to the cam, should I do that? if so, won't that reduce the amount of oil draining down to the timing chain and dist gear?
5. steam holes, I think some have said not to do this as it may cause cracks in head or block but I'll be running this with a stock Model A radiator. the 292 in the car now has the steam holes drilled and stays cool. thoughts? Radiator fill is well above the motor.
6. how important is it to have the posted heads? I have a set of each but the posted set will need more work and you know these motors are not cheap. Both sets are uncut and I'm running stock pistons. both sets are the big valve heads.
7. Camshaft, should I cut the oil groove deeper? I have a lathe and this would be easy to do. I will be buying an aftermarket cam, while we are here, any suggestions?
8. any other things that I have not heard of?

Thanks for your thoughts and yes, I know most of this has been covered before I just thought it would be nice to get it all in one place
Cliff
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)Supercharged (1.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 6 hours ago
Posts: 571, Visits: 8.8K
Those engines ran for 100's of thousand miles with no mods for over 50 years, most of the things I see people do are of no value.
Joe-JDC
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)Supercharged (850 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 hours ago
Posts: 346, Visits: 12.0K
#4.  If you look in your valley, there is a trough that channels oil to the front timing gear area.  Elongate that hole so that the oil drains freely, and you should be ok.  The holes in the valley for camshaft oiling need to be in a specific place, or you are slinging the oil in the wrong direction.  The rest of your questions are dependent on how much time you are willing to spend for little return.  Joe-JDC

JDC
1946international
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Turbocharged

Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 28, Visits: 2.5K
I tend to agree that most are not needed but the rocker shaft mods sound like a good idea. I know I have heard about the "harder" cam bearings and that would be worthwhile.   While we talking about this, is there a place that I can buy bushings to repair the rockers? I think I could figure out a way to cut them out and was thinking that buying a bushing to push in would make the job much easier.



 
Florida_Phil
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 13 hours ago
Posts: 868, Visits: 194.9K
I am not a professional engine builder, I am a hobbyist.   Over the years, I have incorporated many of the mods you mentioned in my YBlock builds. The long term effects of some of them, like cutting the block oil drain holes deeper, are hard to qualify. On a street engine, I doubt there is any discernible benefit.  I always cut shallow grooves in the back of the plate that holds the cam in position. I feel this is a worthwhile mod.

There are many different ideas when it comes to modifying a YBlock top end oiling system. I have tried them all.  The best idea I have seen so far is leaving everything stock and cutting the cam oil groove deeper.  I believe Mummert came up with this idea, but I may be wrong. I have an Isky cam in my motor.  When I purchased this cam, the oil grove was .018" deep.  I cut the grove in a lathe to .030" deep.  This significantly increased the oil flowing to the heads.  So much so that I decided not to pressurize the rockers.  I was afraid I would have too much oil in the heads, so I installed new oil drain tubes in the stock position.  All this assumes your head oil holes are open and that you don't have anything blocking the flow.  I have put about 3,000 miles on my new engine with practically no valve adjustments necessary.

My heads and rockers are bone stock 1957 non posted "G" heads.  I took them off a 40,000 mile 1957 Station wagon with a 272.  Other than a valve job and new rocker shafts, nothing fancy has been done to them.  This particular YBLock is one of the best engines I have ever owned.  It holds 20 pounds of oil pressure idling at a traffic light with 30 weight oil, my plugs are perfect and the engine revs smooth and vibration free.

In my opinion, the key to having a good engine is in the machine work.  Finding someone who can perform quality machine work is difficult these days. Quality knowledgeable machine work is essential.  Quality like I look for is not normally available at your down the street machine shop.  I took my engine to a well known race engine shop to have my work done.  I did everything the way they told me to and I couldn't be more pleased with the result.


http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/82ad85c1-6def-4eb4-a085-3dd2.jpg

darrell
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)Supercharged (549 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 4 hours ago
Posts: 252, Visits: 7.8K
as some have stated cutting the groove deeper in the cam is a good idea.if you buy a cam from mummert its already been cut.its the only mod i do.
Ted
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Co-Administrator

Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)Co-Administrator (10.0K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 6.3K, Visits: 151.7K
1946international (6/15/2020)
1. should I close off the drain tubes on the rockers?

I’ll start with #1.  In stock form, the factory overflow tubes work fine with stock valve spring pressures.  Because the Y was never blessed with hydraulic lifters, the rocker arms do have a period of relaxation whereas rockers with a hydraulic camshaft do not experience that same period of free floating.  For the Ford Y and because there is that time frame where there is no pressure against the shaft, gravity free flow of oil to the rockers is sufficient.  Other advantages of retaining the overflow tubes will include the shafts being completely full of oil with minimal air being entrapped and the constant oil flow through those shafts also helps in keeping the oil temperature lower which in turn minimizes sludge formation within the shafts.  Any trapped air in any oil system and especially where heat is applied speeds up the oxidation process.
  
It’s when the valve spring pressures are increased significantly that I’ll consider pressurizing the rocker arm shafts.  Another consideration is if bronze bushings are used at the rocker shafts versus if staying with iron on steel.  Clearances at that point are also a consideration.  When opting to use the roller rocker arms, I’ll pressurized the shafts as the rocker to shaft clearances are being targeted for 0.002”.

If using crap oil or the oil is not routinely changed, then it really doesn't matter what the oil system looks like at this point as accelerated wear will occur regardless.

I'm not the final word on how any of this in done so other options or ways of doing this are always welcome.



Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


1946international
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Turbocharged

Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)Turbocharged (71 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 28, Visits: 2.5K
Phil, Thanks, so you could see a big increase in oil at the rockers, that is good to know. I don't know what cam I will end up with but I'll cut the groove deeper like you did if needed. Any thoughts on the harder cam bearings?

Ted, so you sound like you are in the camp of not pressurizing the rockers unless I increase the spring pressure. On the 292 that is in the car now, I welded up the overflow tubes and drilled a very small hole in the ends. My thought here was to keep a little more oil in the shafts and still not shut off the oil to the timing chain and dist gear. After reading you last post, this may not have been the right thing to do as the rockers on that motor had been rebuilt with bronze bushings. is what your saying is that I should pressurize the shafts when running  bronze bushings in the rockers?
Florida_Phil
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)Supercharged (2.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 13 hours ago
Posts: 868, Visits: 194.9K
1946international (6/16/2020)
Phil, Thanks, so you could see a big increase in oil at the rockers, that is good to know. I don't know what cam I will end up with but I'll cut the groove deeper like you did if needed. Any thoughts on the harder cam bearings?
After I cut the cam groove deeper, I wanted to test it before final assembly.  With the short block assembled and the oil pan full sitting on my engine stand, I used a speed handle to manually turn the oil pump.  I was surprised to see oil shoot out the holes in the block.  Cutting the grove has a significant effect on oil flow to the heads. I don't know what cam bearings were used as my machinist installed them.  I have had problems with poorly installed cam bearings before. Often the cam would not turn without scraping the bearings, a tedious time consuming job. This time I gave the cam to the machinist so he could avoid having this issue.



http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/82ad85c1-6def-4eb4-a085-3dd2.jpg

Daniel Jessup
Posted Last Month
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)Supercharged (3.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Month
Posts: 1.7K, Visits: 29.7K
One thing I have done in a C2AE block that I have lined up to put in a 312 crank and some other good horsepower adders is a set of Durabond camshaft bearings from Verne Schumman that have BOTH and ID groove and an OD groove for oil feed. For all practical purposes, this is very close to the same idea of cutting the groove in the block deeper to increase the oil feed. As I recall, Verne had these especially made so I don't think they are available all over the place and such (unless someone knows otherwise). I do like McMaster's modification to the rocker arm assemblies as far as pressurizing. Also I have drilled the small hole up front behind the cam plate, grooved the plate itself, and added the trough (to feed the timing chain) to the C2AE block. 

Daniel Jessup

Loveland, Ohio

aka "The Hot Rod Reverend" w00t
check out the 1955 Ford Fairlane build at www.hotrodreverend.com




Reading This Topic


Site Meter