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Low rpm power and torque

Posted By 1960fordf350 7 Years Ago
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1960fordf350
Question Posted 7 Years Ago
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Just joined over here,  been over at FTE for years.  

Hopefully I'm gonna build a fresh engine for my F350.  I've been planning on doing this for a good couple years.  (best laid plans!)
1st in need to figure out my rpm's I'm running out on the highway.  Gear changes make my speedo totally inaccurate, that, and the fact it bounces up and down about 10mph as your driving.  The 2nd is my weight.  It's a 350 dually flatbed, and the flatbed is homemade diamond plate and heavy.  Plus I do carry stuff on the back for show.
I have tires with 31in outside diameter.  The diff is running a 5:14 gear.   Plus I'm running an auxiliary tranny with a 17% overdrive.  Can someone help me with the formula for what rpm's I'd be running at 65mph?
I'm collecting parts and ideas.   I was looking at 312 cranks to stuff in my 292 block.   I was also looking at mummerts rods that convert 292 crank to a 312.   Anyone have experience with them?   I have a shortblock still together that has an ec crank in it.   I also have the running 292 still in the truck. So I have another crank there too.  I plan to bore the block to at least 312, maybe more.   I plan to still run the 2 barrel intake on it. It's running a holley 2 barrel with the oil bath air cleaner.   I'm running dual exhaust already, eventually I'm hoping to put rams horns on it.     I have a pair of ECG-D heads on the shelf,  and if I remember right,  the engine in the truck has C1TE heads.  

OK  throw some ideas and info at me
Pat


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miker
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Here’s an rpm calculator, you’ll have to do your own math for the o/d since it’s an odd ratio. I think you’re 4.3 or 4.4 if I did the math right.

https://www.ringpinion.com/calculators/Calc_RPM.aspx

I’ve done a couple offset ground 312 cranks, one in a 312 and one in a 292. 340 and 320 cid respectively. The 340 required clearancing the rods to the cam. They’re in a light car, I don’t know how the smaller rod bearings would hold up under a truck load. That would be a question for guys like Mummert or Ted Eaton.



miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ
1960fordf350
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Thanks for that link Miker.   I looked it up and tried to use it.   Not quite accurate, but close.  I looked back at the papers on the auxiliary,  its .85 not what I originally thought.   That website won't let me plug it in.  It uses its own overdrive ratio of .80   Using that ratio my engine is turning 2897rpm at 65mph.  So with my .85 I'll figure 3,000rpm.  It shows 3621rpm for straight thru ratio of 1:1.    When I 1st bought the truck it had a 5:83 differential in it.   That calculator shows 4100rpm at 65mph for a straight transmission.  That's screaming!!
So I went out today and scored a brand new set of service heads!!   Still in the ford boxes.  They are C3TZ-6049-FG heads.   For some reason the F is not printed on the box,  but is cast FG on the heads.   Any ideas about them?     I'm considering all new valves for these heads.  Definetly gonna install hardened seats in the exhaust. http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/a8da1749-c702-4811-b626-3f84.jpghttp://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/c01835b9-34bf-42ae-9db1-e240.jpghttp://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/fb4aebb7-d67f-41c1-800c-5f39.jpg


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miker
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Just run your o/d ratio by the 5:14 you’ve got, and then plug that in to the appropriate box in the formula. Should be right on.

Here’s the head casting info from Mummert’s site. It all clear at the bottom of his home page

http://www.ford-y-block.com/cylinderheadchart.htm


miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
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Tucson, AZ
Ted
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Welcome to the site.
 
Increasing the compression ratio is the easiest route for a torque increase.  That can be done by decking the block and/or milling the cylinder heads.  After that, consider a camshaft with an increase in intake duration.  The 1958-1964 factory camshaft grinds are pretty dismal from a performance standpoint so almost any upgrade in this area will help.  Even the stock 1957 grind would be a significant upgrade over the 60-64 truck grinds.  Consider some mild port work to both the heads and intake manifold as this will also be beneficial even though you are keeping the two barrel carb.  But also consider a larger two barrel carb as the original carburetors are conservatively sized.
 
Compression ratios are dependent upon the combustion chamber volumes and as such, the cylinder heads after 1960 concentrated on larger chambers in order to lower the compression ratio.  Stepping up to a set of 1956 cylinder heads with the intermediate intake valve sizes would also help in lieu of the C1TE or ECG heads.  ECZ-G or ‘113” heads (1957-1959) with the even larger 1.92” intake valves would be even better but prepared to look for these if you don’t have any handy.  And last but not least, consider upgrading to a set of 1.54:1 rockers instead of the stock 1.43:1 rockers.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


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Posted 7 Years Ago
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Thanks for chiming in Ted.  I know you go through these questions all the time.   It's 50 outside in Parma today, so I went out to the garage.   Upon further investigation,  I found C1TE cast in the heads on the side that the head gaskets seal.  Then I have the ECG-D heads on the shelf.   Which ones would I be better to throw money at?                                                          Then I moved on to the 292 I have on the engine stand.  I picked it up a couple years ago as scrap.   It had been supposedly drag raced,  who knows.   It has an EC crank and EBU rods,  but the pistons stick out of the block .0021.  They had double stacked head gaskets on it.   I pulled the front apart this morning and pulled the cam.  I was thinking of some radical thing.   NOT!!  Lol  Its got a FoMoCo cam in it.   The only id numbers on it are behind the 1st lobe at the front of the cam.  The 1st number is
67,  when you roll it over 180* it has an 81.   Anyways,  doubt I'll use that one.  
 


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Ted
Posted 7 Years Ago
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1960fordf350 (12/19/2017)
....Upon further investigation,  I found C1TE cast in the heads on the side that the head gaskets seal.  Then I have the ECG-D heads on the shelf.   Which ones would I be better to throw money at?

If wanting an increase in the torque values, then consider using the ECG heads as the combustion chamber design in those are more conducive to promoting additional turbulence at low rpms.


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


PF Arcand
Posted 7 Years Ago
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About the pistons sticking out of the block. Possibly the block has been decked excessively?  Or, and I may be corrected on this, it may have been re assembled with truck pistons that have a different wrist pin height.  


Paul
1960fordf350
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That was my thought about pin height.  I believe that HD pistons used a different height pin.   The pistons have a 30 in the top,  but I haven't popped one out to see if its an oversize.       I don't plan to rebuild that block.   I plan on rebuilding the block that's still running in the truck.    For right now I'm concentrating on the top end.   I checked the rocker arms I have,  they are ECG 6564 rockers.   They are not loose on the shafts.  The shafts don't look scored either.   So I call that a score!   Now for the heads.  I was looking at the valves.  I don't have any micrometers.  Will the 1.78 intake valve sit down in the 1.64 hole?   I was able to take a intake valve from the ECG-D head and it fit right in the new head.   So now I don't know what head I have.   I can't see any posts in through the holes in the head.   http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/8459a994-ff1d-4425-a785-b3f2.jpghttp://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/5f1af50f-a5db-4d2d-bb0e-3bec.jpg

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Happy New Year!!   Having some time off I've been playing with my project.   I finally popped the pistons out of the block I have on the stand.  My neighbor has a harbor freight micrometer I borrowed.  Not the best, but close.   I'm getting 1.75 for the center of the pin to the top of the piston.   So,  the block has been decked.   I'm wondering if the stacked head gaskets had more to do with the intake not meeting the heads with the block decked that far.   I didn't have an intake with the engine when I bought it.
Has anyone used one of Mummert's reground cams?   I found a page where he has reground cams and lifters for $175  He only has 2 grinds.   256 and 264 advertised duration.
But that's a good deal in anyones book.   


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