I expected it would be a race for 2nd. Kaase history and resources is on another level.


Just wish the guys with the oil issues would have pulled out sooner as I would have done a 30 hr cannon ball run to Ohio.

Since I was on the alternate list I finished building my engine for pump gas as originally intended.
With only 10.5 compression and 333.6ci it makes
429ft/lbs @4400rpm and 444.6hp @5800rpm

Mr Mummert has done a great job with these heads. while they may be limited for the big inch race motors my plan was to go with smaller ci and less impressive peak numbers and try for better average score. With different pistons and some more time it could have been a strong competitor. Hopefully next year I'll make the real list.

Congrats to all involved every vintage engine there was impressive. I love seeing these old engines built to run and not just look pretty.

WoW!  THANKS for making the time to write all of this up for the Forum!  My appreciation for what went into getting you to the EMC and attaining the numbers you had in the competition G-R-O-W-S, Royce!

I hope that Ted will consider doing some variation of your accounting for his 'small' y-block entry. 

I know Ted used beehive valve springs on one build he wrote about in (?) Y-Block Magazine...

Again, THANKS, Royce.  Very informative and insightful!


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

If I had not had a running engine that I was confident in, I could never have put together the effort to get an engine to the Engine Masters. What Ted did in a compressed time frame is amazing..

The idea was to pull the engine from my drag car and massage it a little bit and run it at EM. I was figuring maybe a couple weeks work and that would be it.It did not turn out that way  LOL..I run E-85 in my drag car and the contest has a spec fuel so I needed a different carb.  I run an automatic and the contest required an SFI certified flywheel so I had to lean on John to get his supplier to custom make one for me. With a 3000 to 6000 rpm range I was not sure if a single plane intake or a dual plane would score better so I ordered a couple to try.. I do not have any dyno headers that would match that rpm range so i had Yestertech modify some Schoenfeld headers to fit the Lincoln. We decided that Tri Y headers would likely make more low end torque so Jerry whipped up a set of those too. I had always wanted to try a tunnel ram and EFI on this engine.. On my shelf I had the lower half of an EFI tunnel ram intake that Mercury Marine used on one of their scrub based boat engines. I fabricated an upper plenum and rigged up a fuel rail with 42 lb injectors, 2 65mm throttle bodies all controlled by a FAST EZ EFI port injection system. I sent 2 intakes and the tunnel ram to Joe Craine for porting and flow testing. When i had finally collected all the parts I needed I ran my first dyno test in July.. We tested a single plane and a dual plane intake  2 different headers and 4 different carbs. Learnings from the first dyno session were that a 750 carb was all it wanted, and that Jerry's Holley 750 HP Ultra was the best of the 750 carbs we had. The Schoenfeld headers were better than the Tri Y's and the single plane and dual plane intakes were almost identical in score.. Peak power occurs at 6300 and peak torque at 4600 so the cam is not ideal.  After thinking about results for a while I decided the only thing that was really nailed down was the carburetor. Everything else was still a question.. On intakes it seems what the engine wanted was a bigger dual plane intake for more top end or a single plane that has smaller runners to make more low end torque.  I had confirmed that the cam is really to big for the RPM range I was working with so it decided on the next test to open the lash and advance it 4 degrees to pick up the low end torque. I purchased 2 more intakes, A Performer RPM Air Gap and a Holley Strip Dominator. My thinking was that if the RPM Air Gap could be made to flow a little better it could help the top end score.. The Strip Dominator has a smaller plenum and runners so I surmised it might make a bit more low end torque I sent these 2 intakes off to Joe Craine for tweaking and flow balancing. Also by this time I had completed fabrication on the EFI tunnel ram, so that needed to be tested as well. I was back on the dyno just before labor day. The EFI intake was a disappointment. It was down on Performance across the board. It was short on low end torque and also high end horsepower , so after tuning it the best we could with no better results it was set aside. The testing on the single plane Holley and the Air Gap Edelbrock produced scores that were very close to one another, so there was no clear choice on manifolds. Advancing the cam moved torque peak 300 rpm lower which I thought would improve the score, but it did not. Gains in low end torque were offset by equal loss of power at the higher range, with the net gain or loss being 0..Loosening the lash did help and i picked up about 20 points of score... I ran into a couple mechanical issues in this session as well,  water in the oil, and the cam was walking in the block enough to change the timing 20 degrees at idle. So back to the shop to fix the problems and settle on a final combination to run at EMC.The mechanical issues were easily solved and after some thought I settled on the dual plane Air Gap intake. I also could not help thinking I could find a better header to make more torque, so I had Yestertech make 1 more set with very long primaries and a 3 inch instead of 3.5 inch collector. Last week in Sept I am on the dyno again this time trying to find the best spacer combination dial in the carb for the final time and test the long tube headers.  It turns out the long tube headers did not make any more torque than the set I started with.. The engine turned out not to be real sensitive to jetting so we picked a middle of the road carb tune.. The spacer combo that we ended up choosing was a semi open 1 inch spacer shaped like a clover leaf, with a 1/4 open spacer underneath it. We could have tested different combos for days but at some point I had to settle on something so i went ahead and locked in the combination.. I made well over 100 dyno pulls tried 4 carbs 5 manifolds 3 sets of headers many spacers, cam timing and valve lash.. In the end I was able to pick up about 90 points and make a score of 2183.  HRM covered the actual dyno run pretty well so I will not repeat that.. I was happy it was drama free and no surprises  we made 8 pulls in 35 min and the engine never missed a beat 

Here is what my combination looks like:
1957 mercury 368 block and heads.
Block bored ..060  JE pistons with 1/16/1/6 3/16 rings 10cc dome 12:1 compression
Forged crank with offset ground rod journal to 2.2 for a 3.7 stroke
TFS SFI Damper. Mummert billet SFI steel flywheel
Scat 7.1 inch BBC rod
SCE copper head gasket with O Ring
Heads max ported by Joe.D.Craine  2.05 intake 1.65 ex. Flow 255/195 @.600
Edelbrock SBC Performer RPM Air Gap intake ported by Joe.D.Craine
Holley 750 HP Ultra carb
Solid roller cam by Mike Jones  Jones Cam designs   252/252 .625 lift
Lunati solid roller lifters
Smith bros 5/16 chrome moly push rods
Harland Sharp 1.6 aluminum roller rockers
PAC beehive valve springs
ARP main studs and Head studs
Stock timing set.. 57 type distributor with locked timing at 34 degrees
Pertronix Ignitor firing a MSD 6 with a Blaster coil.
NGK WR5 plugs  7 quarts Amzoil 10/30 K&N oil filter   Stock truck oil pan with windage tray  stock oil pump

I think standing back and looking at Teds participation in EMS with what is basically original style engine running single 4 bbl carb compared to jon kaases highly modified 2 x 4 engine, ted finished ahead in my book.


  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

Why does it sound better when Mr, Mummert talks about rearranging the ports on the Y-Block? Maybe it's because we know he is in it for the long haul.

Thank you for all you've done for this obsolete little mill and all of us who love it!
-Dave

We've tried lots of experiments with old #001. Side by side ports were tried some time ago and showed promise on the flow bench. Looked a little too scrubbie for us to think it would be well received. We've looked at some other configurations that I wouldn't want to mention. Still considering some other options but we feel we are getting near the limits of the OE stacked port layout. There are limitations build into that configuration that limit the potential. The heads we sent Ted are the best to date we have come up with. The numbers Ted achieved are remarkable with the cam not being of his choosing and having to use a dual plane intake manifold.
The biggest limiting factor of the original port layout is that the lower port starts out near the deck surface and needs to rise to attain a reasonable short turn height. This is critical to get the air/fuel to aim down the cylinder and not centrifuge around the chamber. Unfortunately, the lower port is under the upper port and can't rise very much until it clears the upper port. At the same time the upper port needs to start turning toward the valve seat. Again, it can't because the lower port is under it. The interaction of the two ports in physical space is the limiting factor of the design. We have considered moving the valves closer to the center of the bore, which is the best place for the intake valve. However, moving the valves closer to the intake manifold shortens the distance the ports have when they are not interacting with each other even more.
It appears that the next step has to be a layout without stacked ports if the power levels are to exceed 600hp.Very few will want to exceed that number, but somebody will, so the quest continues.

http://ford-y-block.com 

20 miles east of San Diego, 20 miles north of Mexico

Rotated Valves?? It's a Cleveland? You got some Splainin' To do Lucy!

Frank/Rebop

Bristol, In ( by Elkhart) 

Here is a fun pic of Mummert head #001, its life has been dedicated to R&D.  This design started coming to life the day that people started talking about building a big bore block.  The plan was to have a valve location that would be very good in original blocks, and have the room to go  2.08- 2.125 in 4.00-4.125 bore blocks..
 We just got our new angle milled CNC ported race head with standard port design out to Ted before the EMC competition. It seems to have some real promise.


http://ford-y-block.com 

20 miles east of San Diego, 20 miles north of Mexico

Kaase's engine was really impressive and Mummert is right, that's the way things are made to be on top for which he went for, but Ted and Royce were just as impressive with their builds for which those parts are available and you can set their engines as is in a hot rod and kick some serious hiney! All three of those guys did a really great job for the yblocks (Ford and Lincoln).


-Gary Burnette-

I did find it interesting to see what Kaase has done with his engine as he was pretty tight lipped. I know he says in his video that He and SAM "essentially" had some info sharing, as employees and students talk. I however didn't know just how far he was taking it.
 I think many have found it fascinating to see Kaase's engine apart and on display. Hearing more about the other Y blocks in the competition would give us more appreciation for their accomplishments. 
 Building engines for these competitions is a ton of work and expense.  A lot of learning,  frustration , and happiness comes out of these projects.
 Knowing that Ted and Royce went through a lot of effort with their engines I think it would be very interesting to hear some more in depth stories.  Teds score shows large gains over his 2010 entry.  From my calculations Ted achieved more hp/cu in than any other engine in the class. That's saying something.
 As has been pointed out Ted and Royces engine could be duplicated and owned by anyone. Kaase's engine as interesting as it was, realistically could not, in any reasonable time and budget.
  A lot of credit needs to go to the guys that put themselves in the arena, and compete.
Geoff Mummert.

http://ford-y-block.com 

20 miles east of San Diego, 20 miles north of Mexico