PCV installed issue..

PCV installed issue..

Home
»
Keeping The Dream Alive!
»
Street

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic144832.aspx

Print Topic | Close Window

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

Have recently converted my 312 engine to a Ford Autolite 4100-1.08 carb & a PCV setup. Used a later style rear vent valley cover for the valve location. It's not a fully closed system & the air intake is thru the oil filler cap. (clean & in good shape) We've got the carb sorted so the idle is good. At idle the PCV seems to be working fine, virtually O crankcase smoke at the fill pipe. However, after driving it briefly, it's now blowing oil smoke when accelerated. I pulled the valve out & looked into the original oil deflector underneath & found noticeable oil residue there So, first question is, am I using an incorrect PCV valve ? The one I have is new but I had it on hand & don't recall what it was for originally. The # on it is 2072, USA made. I read somewhere that the valves need to be sized properly for the engine ? Is that correct? Thanks.

By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago

PCV valves are application specific. Since there is no valve specific to this application, the best chance at getting one that will work is to choose one for a similarly sized and performing engine.

If the valley cover has the baffle, then there could be something else going on. If it doesn't or it is compromised somehow, you can try a baffled grommet to see if that helps.

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

Charlie; thanks.. Does anyone know if a baffled valve will will fit over top of the original oil deflector?. Or will say an early (?) Ford 289 valve work? Some later PC Valves have a double oulet for a closed gas vapor system connection, which isn't what I need. Any info appreciated..

By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago

I just added a PCV System to my re-installed Engine. I used a Valve I think for a 302 Ford. I can tell already its too much Flow at Idle. The last Time I did this was 10 Years ago and ended up using One for a 78 Fairmont 4 Cylinder. Its usually a Case of experimentation. I used one of those Baffled Inserts because I am using Original Valley Pan and these Inserts are supposed to Work with a PCV. I did have to add a Grommet correct Size for the PCV Valve. Cut it down and Glued to the Baffle to hold the PCV in Place.

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

Mark: Thanks.. Not sure what you mean by too much flow at idle, in what way?. Further, I did some searching on PC valves & as far as I can determine, the #2072 may be from Delco & it was indicated that it was used on smaller engines,"max size" 3.8 L V-6 or 232 inches. If that's correct (?) the one I have is way off ??. Will a unit for bigger displacement, be less likely to suck up oil or make it worse?? I'm Confused?!

By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago

The PCV Valve has a Spring inside as well as a "Stepped" restrictor which controls Air Flow. The Spring works against Engine Vacuum to keep the Valve in a Position to allow only a certain amount of Air to pass to Carburetor. If too much Air passes through at Idle you will think You have a Vacuum Leak. Rough Idle. Too much Air is causing a Lean Fuel Mixture at Idle. All PCV 's are calibrated for a Specific Application so the Trick is to find One that works Like I mentioned the last One I used was for a 78 Ford 4 Cylinder. The 302 One allowed too much Air at Idle.

By miker - 5 Years Ago

Sometime in the past, greenbird56 had a post about using a restriction in the PCV hose to control the airflow. I don’t have much luck using the search function but you might give that a try. IIRC, it went between the PCV valve and the carb.

By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago

I could use that Info too if Anyone finds that Post and can U put a Link on this Post? Thanks

By Ted - 5 Years Ago

PF Arcand (3/20/2019)

When the PCV valve was put in the rear hole in the valley cover, was the hollow threaded stud for the original road draft tube retained or cut down? I typically remove that hollow stud when I install a grommet in the valley cover hole. This allows the PCV valve to fully seat within the grommet and still clear the 'shelf' beneath the valve. If the stud was removed, was what remains of the original threaded hole plugged? I just put a 1/4-20 bolt and self locking nut in that hole in the lower shelf which prevents a direct path for the oil to get to the PCV valve. It's also important to insure that the shelf has not been pulled higher or upwards towards the PCV valve as that could have happened when the original road draft tube was over-tightened thus pulling the shelf up higher.

I use the Microgard 2322 PCV valves for the Y engines. These are used with the more modern carburetors that are also designed to use PCV valves. Early carbs tend to be on the lean side when retrofitting PCV valves and will require some tailoring of the idle circuits to richen up the fuel mixture accordingly.

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

Ted: Thanks. I should have mentioned that I did remove the attachment pce from the oil shield & soldered a pce of metal into the hole. The shield appears to be flat & the valve I'm using is only 3/4" deep to the flange & seats fine. However, I was concerned about oil drainage, so I drilled 3 small about 1/16" diameter holes around that area. So, that was probably a mistake to do that?. If it matters the carb is similar to the Autolites introduced in 1957 but is actually original to a SBF, 289 Mustang, of 1965. (paper with it indicated it was apparently redone by Pony Carbs, before I bought it & appeared unused )

By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago

I have a suggestion for the upper side of the addition of a PCV system for any engine but especially our Y's. Your oil fill tube at the front of the engine breather should not be open to atmosphere when adding the system. The manufactures do not do this; the "sucked" air for this system should be "filtered" air from inside the breather of the air cleaner you choose. The normal push on breather does have some filtering material but I do not think it's sufficient and allows the "smell" after shutting down. I purchased a push on cap with a 1/2" tube and ran it to the area in the inside of my air cleaner thru a homemade double 90* fittings, thus the air being drawn in by the PCV will be be better filtered.
This will also work for engine with no PCV system if you don't want blow-by under the hood but it is not for that but will work. I can post photos if anyone wants to see what I did.

By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago

miker (3/20/2019)

Anyone know where this Post is and can You provide a Link? I couldn't find it using Search.

By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago

oldcarmark Are you wanting to see what I did? I never put the photos anywhere but will do it here in a reply if someone wants to see them..

By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago

I was looking for Greenbird56 old Post regarding Restrictors etc. He's a pretty smart Guy with this Type of Stuff.

By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago

I don't recall him doing a pcv restrictor.

For his cooling system a part of the modifications was a restrictor in the bypass hose.

By miker - 5 Years Ago

I’m pretty sure Steve did a PVC restrictor too. What I don’t remember is how he determined the size, or what he drilled the plug to.

FWIW, if you can’t find a “closed” cap like DLR mentioned, or if you’re using aa aftermarket valley cover, you can get oil fill tubes with a closed cap. My bird uses the sealed tube, with a threaded bung from a 69 Camaro. Painted or chromed.

I always run closed systems both for the filtered air and the reduction of vapor smell.

By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago

oldcar... Yes I agree greenbirds has helped me thu many problems.
I found a PVC replacement for a 1961-2 Ford Mercury 292 on E-Bay in the original package. It has a 1/4' threaded end and is to be for the rear of the carb. It was made by Union Electrical Parts in North Bergen N.J. and has a price of $1.57 still on it. #PV580. It fits other Fords, none newer than 1964 but It could have been made then. I have the correct valley cover for it and still need to put it on.

By Ted - 5 Years Ago

miker (3/28/2019)

I’m pretty sure Steve did a PVC restrictor too. What I don’t remember is how he determined the size, or what he drilled the plug to. ...

By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago

A friend who taught auto mechanics for years in HS and finally at the JC level for over 20 told me today that the 1964 Corvette did not have a PCV valve but a 90*fitting at the rear of the carb with a .060" hole in it. It's the only one he ever knew of.

By 62galxe - 5 Years Ago

I'm using a microgard PCV2377. It was a band aid used by GM for oil consumption. Its basically a empty shell with a very small hole in the bottom. Its sometimes called a fixed orifice valve. So far it seems to work ok. Vacuum readings are a little better. Best part is it was only .99 cents.

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

DLRacer; Re your mention of insufficient filtering thru oil filler caps. Ford, however used that system for the draft tube crankcase venting. Apparently they thought the original caps filtered well enough. (?) Early ones had an air scupper on them to assist air flow. Now, the system was flawed in the end effect that many owners just used it as a filler cap & didn't keep the filter material clean. It was facing down when installed, unnoticed & seldom serviced. A leading cause of crankcase sludge buildup.. And often original very dirty caps were discarded in favour of cheaper & smaller ones. (cute chrome ones were popular) My recent PCV installation uses a large Ford authorized cap (Autolite?) that appears to have decent filter material in it.. I won't be driving it in dirty conditions, so I'll just stick with it.. About the smell you refer to after the engine is shutdown. Is that crankcase odor, or are or are you smelling gas?. So far, I haven't noticed any fumes coming from the crankcase when shutdown. (by chance the PC valve is original to a smaller V-6 engine). Does that make a difference? I don't know? Of course the system isn't perfect, in terms of sealing all fumes, because later original equiptment carburetors used closed sytems with a charcoal fume canister etc..

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

A further thought or questions on a PCV after market setup; Smell has been mentioned here, apparently after the engine is shut off. In my case there has been no what I'll call crankcase smell or odour. However, my carb is a Ford Autolite 4 Bbl, and I've noted that when the engine is warm or the area is warm, there is some faint Gas odour at times. If I have it right, the carb appears to have 6 vents !. 4 verticle tube vents inside the air cleaner area & two others, one each on the top of the float Bowls.. The front bowl vent is about 5/32" in diameter. If I'm right, why so many vents allowing fuel to just evaporate away?..

By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago

JFYI -

This is how FORD designed the 4V install. It has an oil baffle and vapor cooling tube.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/f247529c-dadd-4403-b6b8-ea94.jpg

Placing the valve @ the earlier road draft tube opening will draw vapors unless a fabricated mesh screen is inserted withing the baffle.

By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago

why so many vents allowing fuel to just evaporate away?

The reason for EVAP being introduced in 1970's.

By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago

Thanks for the explanation & illistrations.. However, I realize that drawing oil up into the PCV is not desired & that's why I left the original sheet metal oil deflector on the underside of the valley pan,( with the original lower attachment hole plugged) similar to what Ted Eaton has done. (I originally drilled small drain holes there, but it became apparent that wasn't a good idea) But, I'm still a little confused, isn't it intended that the PCV system is to draw crankcase vapors back thru to be re burned in the combustion chamber? On the other hand, I realize that's a somewhat different issue than the Gas evaporation issue, which seems to be quite noticeable, particularly if the car is parked in warm weather without the air cleamer housing & filter installed, which possibly dampens the venting of the 4 inner vent tubes to some extent..

By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago

But, I'm still a little confused, isn't it intended that the PCV system is to draw crankcase vapors back thru to be re burned in the combustion chamber?

It is designed to burn crankcase fumes and create a partial vacuum in the crankcase but not to ingest large amounts of suspended oil vapors. There has to be a baffling device before the valve and/or the engine has excessive blow-by. Excessive fumes will also defeat the valve operation as it will become partially blocked and the valve pintel will not function correctly..

Pull your dipstick and take a whiff. Do you smell gasoline? If you smell gasoline, she is running too rich or has carb leakage (or inoperative CCV).. How about the exterior of the carb? ESSO gas used to use a red dye and you could tell by the carb being pinkish when you pulled the ACL.

By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago

PF Arcand, If your cleaning the PCV system intake air, which is the oil filler cap for us, I have no doubt that it helps that air entering the combustion part of the engine thru the PC Valve will be fine. My suggestion is still today the air entering the system is coming from the air filter holder even in my 2018 Ford F-150 Coyote engine. As for smell, anytime the engine is shut off depending on it's mileage there will be vapors and some more than others; since my car is not equiped with a PCV system and still has the road draft tube upon engine shut down there is always an odor. I decided to try and minimize it by adding a line into the air filter system of my Y oil fill tube and the odor is now gone for the most part.

I have added oil separators (aka catch cans) to both of the cars we have for daily transportation and they do as intended keeping oil out of the intake runners. The one on my F-150 is designed by Ford Performance and always has oil in it when checked. My wife's Honda Civic has a Moroso and it too has oil in its reservoir. If I had a PCV system on my 56 it would have one also. There are many pros and cons about them and can be easily researched on you tube so an opinion by folks can be made..Personally any direct injection engine really needs one of these.