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Frost plugs and PCV conversion

Posted By scott5560 13 Years Ago
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scott5560
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Prepping my block for 292 build after cleaning.  I bought new steel frost plugs and oil gallery plug kit from Ebay.  Do you need to put any sealer on the frost plugs when driven in?

And I ordered a Holley 94 1" aluminum carb spacer to put a fitting in for PCV conversion.  Does it matter what size the through hole is?  Ie. for affecting idle and vacuum or is that regulated by the PCV valve itself.  I am going to get original steel one for 60's era trucks 292 and drill and tap the block behind the valley pan.

Thanks guys.

GREENBIRD56
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Just a suggestion - but I think maybe you should find out what size the PCV valve hose nipple is - and make your adapter to match.

The screw-in PCV set-up Dutchie put on here is a first class design and many have adopted it. But............the pipe threads on the usual Y-block truck service part are on the wrong end of the valve, the check valve is operating in the wrong direction. You'll need to find one with the proper orientation - or maybe someone here can give you a part number to do the job.

On my outfit - the Y-block part flowed way too much air into the carb base and made it the prime source of idle air (didn't work well) - so I orficed it to suit. Others have used a smaller PCV - but that would also present some challenges getting the right combination of threads for the block.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/9ea2bf28-00c4-4772-9ac7-d154.jpg 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona

oldcarmark
Posted 13 Years Ago
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If you simply tap the block and draw directly from there you will suck up a lot of oil instead of just fumes.I am not sure how the later PCV's were hooked up but when using the valley pan from the early T-birds there is a baffle cover on the bottom side to prevent raw oil from being drawn in.A sugggeston also seeing ashow you are reassembling the motor and have access to a tap set.When I installed the valley pan on mine I drilled and tapped for 6-8 machine screws around the perimeter of the pan.This will almost certainly eliminate possibility of  oil leaks.The problem with the original 2 hold down bolts is they tend to lift the outer edge of the pan if overtightened or if the pan is distorted at all from previous installations.The block is very easy to drill with a quality drill bit.Stay away from the casting "ribs" on the sides.I would use sealer on both frost plugs and the oil gallery plugs.There are better quality frost plugs available made from brass.

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Daniel Jessup
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Maybe this will help you out...

There are quite a few ways to do this, but I will ditto the brass plugs and the need for sealer on installation. The following photos and article/text are from something I gave to Bruce Young, the editor of the Y block magazine, sometime ago. As stated previously, do be careful about sucking oil instead of fumes...not good for combustion, definitely. There are several ways to pull this off, what I offer here is certainly just one way. Maybe you can do a PCV search on the forum here to weigh your options.

Crankcase Ventilation Upgrade

All of us love Y blocks – for most of us, that’s the reason we bought the truck or car that we own. Maybe it’s the sound of that Y block firing order through dual exhaust, the look of the engine under the hood, or even the horsepower and torque that our favorite V8 offers. Whatever the reasons why you love your Y block, if you are anything like me, you want that motor to operate and run well. This goes for those of us who own cars and trucks that have “stock” engines and for those who trick their engines for the best in performance.

Let’s consider an upgrade that is available for even us rookie wrenches – positive crankcase ventilation. The crankcase ventilation that came from the factory on the early Y blocks was primitive in functionality and typical of the automotive era (the 239, 256, and 272 engines especially). In the beginning, the Y came from the factory equipped with an open crankcase ventilation system. This means that air from the outside of the engine was moved through the crankcase so that pressure and fumes (what we commonly call “blow-by”) could be scavenged from the block by means of a downdraft tube mounted on the side (that included a filter). Other Y blocks were delivered with a valley pan that had provision for ventilation by means of a port that contained a threaded hole, and a long downdraft tube that wrapped around the bellhousing, down to the rear passenger side of the engine. The fumes exiting the block were also baffled by extra sheet metal attached to the bottom of the valley pan. Theoretically, when the vehicle was traveling at speed, the air that was moving past the opening of the downdraft tube would siphon off the gases present in the crankcase. This system was marginal at best, and today many restorers and other Y block owners have given testimony to having trouble with leaks at the downdraft tube, not to mention rear main seal leaks and seepage due to crankcase pressure.

Some of the later 292 and 312 Y’s had a better system of crankcase ventilation whereby some type of PCV valve was used, whether screwed into a port at the carb, valley pan, or in-line “off manifold” vacuum. I believe you would call this type of system “semi-open” because air was being taken in from outside the block (at the oil fill tube location – remember the screened oil filler cap) circulated through the crankcase, dumped into engine vacuum, then finally burned in the cylinders. Finding these types of systems can be a little difficult, for most Y blocks that I have encountered have the sheet metal downdraft tube just aft of the fuel pump or located at the rear of the engine on the starter side. Take heart – Y blocks that have the components for this upgrade still exist in junkyards and swap meets, and the parts you need can be found.

Veteran readers of our magazine will be quick to note that one of the easiest means of upgrading a positive crankcase ventilation system would be to drill a hole in the rear of your non-vented valley pan, use a baffled grommet, insert a PCV valve, attach a rubber tube to the valve and then to engine vacuum, and you are ready to go. While that may be the fastest option, drilling a large hole at the rear of the valley pan may frighten away a rookie.

As I thought about what to do, I ran across a photo of a PCV fitting from an early 60’s truck (see picture of teapot/spout looking part). This item screws down to the threaded hole on the rear of the vented valley pan described above (see photo of vented valley pan). This small adapter with an upturned spout was actually a FoMoCo item. Typically, I have only found them on C2AE blocks (and oddly enough) only in trucks, but that doesn’t mean that you could not find them on other original applications. Sometimes these small pieces turn up on Ebay or at swap meets. You could also check F-100 restoration suppliers that keep an inventory of used parts. If you do find a junkyard PCV teapot adapter, look for a metal tube that wraps around the coil bracket on its way to the front of the carburetor or carburetor spacer. This is a perfect way to route your line to the front. It is also ½” in diameter, just like the upturned spout on the adapter. As you can tell in the photo, this adapter is very similar to the top of the downdraft tube that attaches to the vented style valley pan. (Some fabricators have used this part to make their own adapter that resembles the teapot/spout item.)

For a PCV valve, I used one that had a ½” intake and a 3/8” outlet (made it into an inline valve - see photo) #1134. This part number is for a 302 small block – and my 292 has been bored .060 over, giving me 301 cubic inches, so I consider the application to be very similar. My Edelbrock carburetor - that was also being installed with a “B” intake at the same time - offered a PCV port on the front, so that’s where I attached my line. I have seen other setups where the line has been attached to manifold vacuum or to a carburetor spacer.

One piece of advice that will save you grief (a lot of rookies make this one) – make sure that you are installing the PCV valve in the right direction! If you don’t, your engine vacuum will be stopped dead cold in its tracks by immediate blockage, and the Y block will leak oil out the weakest seal (usually the rear main) because there is no place for the pressure to vent. You can test the PCV valve by sucking hard on one end, or even by using a vacuum gun. When the engine is running, vacuum will move from the adapter to the carburetor or manifold vacuum, so make sure that the air can pass through the PCV valve in the direction you have it facing.

If you replaced a flat valley pan with a vented style, you no doubt have the beehive-looking downdraft tube still attached to the side of the block. Remove this unit in its entirety, and block it off with one of two items: 1. An original factory plate that covers this hole (I have seen about a half dozen block-off plates on 292’s and 312’s that had a vented pan with the downdraft tube at the rear of the block going down on the passenger side) or 2. Purchase a VW fuel pump block off plate – believe it or not, all three holes match up, and it all seals off with a new gasket – I didn’t use sealer on mine.

At this point in the process, if you had a vented pan installed before you began the work, you are pretty much done. Fire it up and test it out. A full installation will take some time because you have to remove the intake manifold to get at the valley pan (if you replaced a non-vented pan), but I believe the time spent will be worth it. On my 55 Club Sedan, with a stock 292, any oil seepage at certain points around the block has just about disappeared. Since the downspout has been removed, there are no more oil drips, and certainly the fumes are all gone.

“Hey, Al Gore, do I get any green credits?”

All kidding aside, this upgrade is very straightforward if completed with original parts. Even if you do not use FoMoCo parts, and have to get into mild fabrication, it can still be done with a little thought and “Y”ngenuity.

Keep those Y’s on the road…

Daniel Jessup

Fellow Y blocker

Daniel Jessup

Loveland, Ohio

aka "The Hot Rod Reverend" w00t
check out the 1955 Ford Fairlane build at www.hotrodreverend.com


oldcarmark
Posted 13 Years Ago
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I just reread your original post.I think the easiest way for you to hook up a PCV would be to get hold of one of the T-Bird valley pans like the one Daniel posted a picture of.You would still use the spacer plate you bought.All you need then is a grommet to fit the hole at the back of the valley pan and a PCV valve and Hose to run to your spacer plate.I used this setup on mine.Works well.I used a PCV valve off a late 70's Ford fairmont 4 cyl.I used a 302 Ford one to start with but it was too big and caused vacuum leak at idle.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Uploads/Images/a82cee8f-be33-4d66-b65d-fcd8.jpg  http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/339ed844-0bc3-4c73-8368-5dd3.jpg
GREENBIRD56
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Mark - search for "Finned valley pan" and look at the set-up used by 2DRHRDTP57 (page 2 maybe?).

I don't think that there is enough oil sloshing around in the valley area to be a problem for the vertical PCV. I believe McTim has been using this arrangement too.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/9ea2bf28-00c4-4772-9ac7-d154.jpg 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona

oldcarmark
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Hi Steve! I found the listing you are talking about.He drilled and tapped one of the linkage holes in the block.What do you do when you need the existing hole to put the stock linkage back on?Doesn't look like there is room at the back of the block to put a hole anywhere else.What I did find interesting was those extended grommets that Ted uses for PCV-no baffle needed.I wonder if they could not be used in a stock non-baffled tin valley cover? 

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GREENBIRD56
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Mark - This technique of mounting the PCV is a way these guys found to avid the back runners of a tri-power manifold

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/9ea2bf28-00c4-4772-9ac7-d154.jpg 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona
paul2748
Posted 13 Years Ago
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While it may be too late, The Hot Rod Company has/makes a plate that has a vacuum port built in. Kinda pricey at 53.00. www.thehotrodcompany.com

54 Victoria 312;  48 Ford Conv 302, 56 Bird 312
Forever Ford
Midland Park, NJ

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Posted 13 Years Ago
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My machine shop uses and recommends Permatex deep penetrating "green" thread sealer on frost plugs. I also use PCV kits from either CASCO, Concours or NPD that includes an aluminum spacer plate with rear tube, pre-formed rubber hose and pcv valve for the '55-'57 Thunderbirds I work on. This kit is for use with the Thunderbird valley pan that others have mentioned has a baffle to minimize drawing too much oil from engine. I don't know how difficult these T-Bird valley covers are to get but in my mind it's worth checking into rather than drilling holes in block. Concours also has a catalogs for full-size Fords and other Fords with y-blocks and may have kits and valley pans for this conversion on your vehicle.



Rod T


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