I received a heads up from another guy who reads but can't log onto this site.  The March '08 issue of Street Rodder Magazine has an article about engine oil and flat tappet cams.  I haven't seen it yet.  Thanks KidKourier.

John

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"

ok. I have been following the zddp topic and i keep hearing everyone using the 15/40 and 20/50 oils from like rotella and valvoline vr-1 line, and redline  but i am curious, how many of you drive your trucks in winter. see, i am in mideastern north dakota in the red river valley and well, from what i have been taught, 15/40 motor oil at 0F isnt exactly good for the motor or the starter. hard on the oil pump driveshaft.  I guess what i am asking is.  Is there any other oils that i can use in place of the 15/40 or 20/50 deisel or racing oils that still have the higher zddp content. is ther any 10/30 or 5/30 oils that still hae the higher zddp??????  also, ifther isnt any oils that work better for my climate, will slick 50 or additives like that, be an option?????  just cant afford to wipe out a cam lobe because of the wrong oil. ya know..

As for all this talk about oils I think I am more confused than ever! But then again, it don't take much. I recently asked an owner of a local Penzoil Lube Center what he has heard from his suppliers on the subject. He told me that Penzoil recomends the use of "Molley Slip" with their oils for flat tappet cam engines. I inquired as to what I should use in my engine as I am going to assume it is high mileage (true mileage is unknown), he recomended that due to the clearances in older motors and the fact that I do not drive the car in winter, that I should be running 20w/50 plus 2 cans of "Molley Slip" with each oil change. I am going to assume he knows what he is talking about, but I could be wrong! Now that's my 2 cents!

Rob

I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning!

Pardon my skepticism, Rob, but I find it hard to listen to a person pitching their own product any more.  AMS guy was here and talked about 20-25 minutes when asked about flat tappets but did not say anything about zinc or how the AMS racing product would off set the lack of zinc.  When pressed, he admitted he only learned the talking points and really did not know the answer.  Purple Slurple response was equally as vague and evasive but he was sure the purple stuff was what was needed.  Seems chriopracters will prescribe an adjustment for the same thing a surgeon prescribes cutting. 

Ted is trying an addative and if it works may be worth the expense but as I recall about $10 an oil change and another $10 for shipping.  I, too, have a small inventory of diesel oil but now understand the diesel oils have way more detergent than should be used in gas burning flat tappet engines.  Till I have a better handle on it, will alternate between diesel w/ zddp and one of the racing oils.

TC

You gotta have the right tools and know how to use 'em.

TC - Austin, Texas

It's odd and a little irritating that the magazines are finally writing about ZDDP and flat tappet cams. Irritating because we have been flogging the subject on the 'net for so many years, and only now are they beginning to write about it. And I promise you they will get it wrong.



On another subject; there are two kinds of ZDDP. One is used in diesel engines and the other is for gas engines. The diesel engine stuff is, of course, not the ideal solution for gas engines. Big duh, huh? Why else would they make two kinds if one kind worked in both engines. Rotella, Delvac, etc. is the wrong kind of ZDDP. But why do I feel like so many people don't seem to know this?



Off-road motorcycle oil often has the right kind. STP oil treatment for 4 cycle engines. GM EOS used to have this, but there's conflicting information about its availability these days.



All this information is on the 'net. I hope everybody does their own research, research from primary sources, not from forums.



Good luck.




Best regards,



Paul Menten

Meridian, Idaho

The latest API SM classification now means some variability in the amount of zinc and here are the rules as I interpret them. If the oil is 30W or less (ie. 5W-20, 10W-30), the zinc/phosphorus is reduced to 800ppm max. But if the oil is greater than 30W (10W-40, 20W-50), the zinc levels remain at 1200-1400ppm. If the oil is classified as SM but has “Racing” or “High Mileage” on the label, then it will have the 1200-1400ppm zinc regardless of the oil weight or viscosity.

.

When in doubt about the amount of zinc in an oil, just pull up the manufacturers MSDS or technical sheet and you can pull the actual zinc/phosphorus content information out of that.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

So Ted,

If I understand your previous post, by just running a good quality 20W/50 as i have been, I will be fine, with no additives required?

Rob

I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning!

That’s right.  Upon getting some of the newer Valvoline Racing 20W-50 and seeing it with a SM classification, I quizzed the local oil rep about it and was informed that this particular oil had 1300 ppm of zinc regardless of the SM classification.  I verified this by going to the Ashland website where I found the updated technical sheet on SM rated Valvoline racing oil.  If you still run an oil with 30W or less viscosity, then a zinc additive would still provide a margin of safety especially if running higher than stock valve spring pressures.  Feel free to post any information that rebukes this.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

I'd have to agree with Ted based on personal experience. As I said in another post, I ran regular valvoline 20w50 without additives for 11k miles. I think I may have used mobile1 20w50 for about 3k of the 11k. Upon teardown, I found nothing was worn prematurely. In fact, I'm using the same cam and lifters in the new motor. There was a problem with the engine - a wristpin clip broke but I don't think the oil had anything to do with this. I'm really not sure how that happened at all.


Lawrenceville, GA

hey guys, got something interesting to ask and share. I was at napa the other day and i was looking at the oils to see what the api spec in each one was(looking forthe energy conserving label) and I came across valvolines maxlife that had the SJ not the SM energy conserving. now my understanding is, if it doenst say energy conserving in the api spec circle, it means that  it has the higher zinc content.  am I right?????