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T-bird Overheating in Traffic... What would YOU do?

Posted By skygazer 13 Years Ago
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pegleg
Posted 13 Years Ago
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skygazer (4/8/2013)
skygazer (4/7/2013)I have avoided ethylene glycol because I've read that pure water actually removes heat better per unit volume (higher specific heat) than anti-freeze, even though it boils at a lower temperature. I will try to look up a reference and repost.


Wikipedia: "Pure ethylene glycol has a specific heat capacity about one half that of water. So, while providing freeze protection and an increased boiling point, ethylene glycol lowers the specific heat capacity of water mixtures relative to pure water. A 50/50 mix by mass has a specific heat capacity of about 3140 J/Kg C (0.75 BTU/lb F) three quarters that of pure water, thus requiring increased flow rates in same system comparisons with water."

For whatever that's worth. Seems that folks are having good luck with 50/50 mix in their t-birds.

Oh, and I've also read that the thermal conductivity of copper is better than that of aluminum. From what I can tell, the reason to use an aluminum radiator is because the metal is slightly stronger, and allows "larger" tubes that are longer in cross section, thus providing more surface area. I have a clean, stock copper radiator.


I suspect you'll find the advantage of aluminum is more based on cost and weight than strength. There are so many varieties of aluminum alloy that a generality about strength is not accurate.

Frank/Rebop

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Hoosier Hurricane
Posted 13 Years Ago
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While speaking of radiators, remember that paint is an insulator. Heavy coats of paint on the fins look nice, but greatly reduces heat conductivity. My friend who had a radiator shop many years ago used a very thin coat of flat black paint of some kind on his repair jobs.

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"
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skygazer
Posted 13 Years Ago
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skygazer (4/7/2013)I have avoided ethylene glycol because I've read that pure water actually removes heat better per unit volume (higher specific heat) than anti-freeze, even though it boils at a lower temperature. I will try to look up a reference and repost.


Wikipedia: "Pure ethylene glycol has a specific heat capacity about one half that of water. So, while providing freeze protection and an increased boiling point, ethylene glycol lowers the specific heat capacity of water mixtures relative to pure water. A 50/50 mix by mass has a specific heat capacity of about 3140 J/Kg C (0.75 BTU/lb F) three quarters that of pure water, thus requiring increased flow rates in same system comparisons with water."

For whatever that's worth. Seems that folks are having good luck with 50/50 mix in their t-birds.

Oh, and I've also read that the thermal conductivity of copper is better than that of aluminum. From what I can tell, the reason to use an aluminum radiator is because the metal is slightly stronger, and allows "larger" tubes that are longer in cross section, thus providing more surface area. I have a clean, stock copper radiator.
skygazer
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Ted (4/7/2013)

Do you have the 1” spacer in place behind the water pump? If so, then removing the ‘T-Bird’ specific spacer will improve the water flow at low rpms. The water pump pulley will need to be moved back forward that missing one inch to correct for the belt alignment to compensate for the ‘removed’ spacer.



And the generator/alternator bracket will have to be massaged. The infamous "t-bird waterpump backing plate" that CASCO debunked was supposed to do the same thing as taking the spacer out. Taking out the spacer is probably a better approach, but has lots of other implications as you mention.

CASCO's test, at least from a water flow perspective, indicates the best answer is to rev the motor a little. I'll have to do my own testing on the next hot day. I'd like to get this resolved before I drive the bird in a parade!
MoonShadow
Posted 13 Years Ago
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The additives I mentioned like "40 Below" are a lubricant and cooling additive for systems not using glycol. They have no affect that I've seen to antifreeze filled systems. Chuck

Y's guys rule!
Looking for McCullouch VS57 brackets and parts. Also looking for 28 Chrysler series 72 parts. And early Hemi parts.

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skygazer
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GREENBIRD56 (4/7/2013)
The use of a large flow capacity thermostat can help a t-bird a good bit more than a standard engine (without the pump spacer) so make sure you check that out. The "high flow" t-stat sold by Mr Gasket for a big block MOPAR will help. The flow restrictor in the bypass hose (mentioned by Ted) just about always shows an improvement in water flow to the radiator. Use a brass 3/8 nominal size pipe plug with a 1/8 - 3/16 orfice drilled through it. Insert in the short hose under the thermostat housing - otherwise the bypass is 5/8 tube "short citcuit" for hot water.


I am using the Mr Gasket thermostat, and yes I tested it before I installed it. I've read about the flow restrictor in the bypass line... right now, that is where I have my mechanical temp sender located. I have reason to believe that there may be reverse flow in that line at idle, because it measures 20 degrees cooler than the manifold using an IR thermometer. This is another good reason to install an orofice.

I have avoided ethylene glycol because I've read that pure water actually removes heat better per unit volume (higher specific heat) than anti-freeze, even though it boils at a lower temperature. I will try to look up a reference and repost.
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This chart shows how the usual anti-freeze mixtures change the boiling point most of us don't get too terrified until the rascal boils over.



The use of a large flow capacity thermostat can help a t-bird a good bit more than a standard engine (without the pump spacer) so make sure you check that out. The "high flow" t-stat sold by Mr Gasket for a big block MOPAR will help. The flow restrictor in the bypass hose (mentioned by Ted) just about always shows an improvement in water flow to the radiator. Use a brass 3/8 nominal size pipe plug with a 1/8 - 3/16 orfice drilled through it. Insert in the short hose under the thermostat housing - otherwise the bypass is 5/8 tube "short citcuit" for hot water.

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 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona
gekko13
Posted 13 Years Ago
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Daniel, I should have qualified the use of "better". Strictly speaking, pure H2O is an excellent "cooling fluid" but it becomes more efficacious as an engine coolant with the addition of ethylene glycol or other similar materials. Not only does it inhibit freeze damage to the water jackets and cylinder heads, it raises the boiling point significantly. Even under pressure, water boils at a lower temperature and steam is a poor coolant. Steam pockets can be a real problem in liquid cooled engines and anything to avoid that is deemed desirable. Now, because a 50/50 glycol coolant mixture can safely function at higher temperatures, other components such as heat exchangers can be sized accordingly- usually smaller and less drag producing- without jeopardizing engine life. BTW, back in the day (way before my time), aircraft manuals commonly referred to coolant radiators as "Prestone coolers". Sound familiar? But you caught me. I made an overly simple statement on a complex and multi-faceted subject. Sorry for the confusion.
DANIEL TINDER
Posted 13 Years Ago
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I assume you thoroughly cleaned out the waterjacket passages in the block during rebuild? Did you also test the thermostat before installation? Even a new one can be defective/sticky. The CASCO waterpump with blade extensions is another option, as it is proven/tested to pump more coolant. A fan clutch would likely help at idle speeds only if you installed an undersized pump pulley. A modified engine usually means the radiator needs to be in top condition or upgraded.

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA
DANIEL TINDER
Posted 13 Years Ago
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[quote][b]gekko13 "ethylene glycol conducted heat significantly better than water alone"

Do you have a reference source for that statement? Everything I have ever read re: coolant efficiency has labeled water as the best.

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA


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