I have manual drum brakes & the original master cylinder & it stops fine. I mean it's not power brakes but maybe I just revert to "back in the day" when they were all like that...

Doing Fords for 45 years. '56 Customline Victoria

E.J. in Havana FL

Nate, here are some random thoughts i have re your brakes and may not apply to your layout. On some customlines there is a little short rubber brake hose between orig m/cyl and metal brake line, if there, it could be closing on application, restricting flow, but unlikely if you have replumbed to dual circuit m/cyl. OR if using old orig shoes, they could be hardened up now and reccommend going to new relined shoes with current material as mentioned/ is there a pic of the m/cyl and plumbing as it may help. it seems strange 6' or 5' that you have to apply so much pressure for little result. OR Is the rear brake hose clear, they often get hard or soft and can restrict flow to rears and haveing front do all the work. I recently had lincoln brakes pull to left and from expeirence thought the RH side is not working and WAS as i thought blocked RHF brake hose, changed it and 100% perfect.

Keep up your progress.

 

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  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

One item that may have been overlooked is the brake lining material. With harder brake material the linings last but braking performance is sacrificed.

I live in the Vancouver WA/Portland OR area and have access to a great business called Ott's Friction Supply. They turn drums, reline shoes and arc the shoes to the drums. They have options as to the friction material being used.

My two bits.



Jeff

Jeff Petersen

Nate,

I'm wondering if you have increased the amount of pressure require as you now have two pistons ie, one for each circuit, that you have doubled the pressure required to stop because you have effectively halved your hydraulic ratio.

I'd do an internet search and try to find out how to calculate hydraulic ratios. I know that the lever ratio's used for your ford are high for power assisted but are low for racing setups that do not use boosters. I checked this out before upgrading my brakes. 

My ex wife used to drive my 56 with non assisted drum brakes and she could barley reach the pedals. she used to wriggle forward to floor the accelerator. She only complained about the steering. (and everything else in life) I found that the car braked well with drums even better that some 70's era cars with power disks. the pedal was never hard although it sometimes needed some muscle to stop quickly.

You may have made a mistake. Personally I would have gone with one of old irsh daves master booster setup there are plenty of posts on these including a current one in technical. For $170 do yourself a favor and upgrade your brakes.

cheers

Warren

Grizzly (Aussie Mainline)

I drove myself crazy with this on my 56 Merc and the problem wound up being an improper pedal ratio. If you google "brake pedal ratio calculator" you will see that a 6 to 1 ratio is needed for manual brakes . Once I changed the brake rod location on my brake pedal it was a different car . A brake pedal is just a lever , the longer the lever the less effort required .

Pete

Hey, its on the road and driving. Thats great! Does your seat go back in the tracks? Makes sure it goes all the way back. If it won't go back far enough its not unheard of to relocate the seat tracks towards the rear just remember to leave a little leg room in the back. Chuck

Y's guys rule!
Looking for McCullouch VS57 brackets and parts. Also looking for 28 Chrysler series 72 parts. And early Hemi parts.

MoonShadow, 292 w/McCulloch, 28 Chrysler Roadster, 354 Hemi)
Manchester, New Hampshire

Man, I was just coming around the other side of this issue and believing that my brakes are fine.  I drove to work today and am starting to get used to them.  I really do believe that one problem is that my legs are so long I cannot push straight on the pedal, my leg is very bent and kind of at an angle (seats don't go far enough back for me!).

The bronco master cylinder was recommended in other posts on this site.  It is a 1" diameter bore and is a direct fit in the original firewall opening, so the push rod angle is identical to OEM.  Since the master cylinder bore diameter is the same as OEM I can't think of anything else about the master cylinder that would make it not work?  A 1" diameter piston moving the same distance should move the same amount of fluid at the same pressure as the OEM.  The only thing different is that it comes from two different ports instead of one, but since I don't have a proportioning valve there shouldn't have been any bias introduced.

My brake pads are on in the correct order (someone pointed out I had them on backward in some of my earlier brake posts when I was redoing the brake system)

It may have something to do with the pad material like Paul mentions, the older material may have made it easier for thsoe 100 lb little old ladies form Pasadena!  Someone pointed out there is a comany that makes replacement pads out of a different softer material that is supposed to help these old cars stop like the used to...but the downside is the material gets used up faster.

I could also just be that I'm a little whimpy after driving modern cars for the last 17 years.

I've found one trick that helps is to put my heel on the pedal, not my toes, I can get some good pressure then without quite as extreme knee angle (hip to heel length is a little shorter than hip to toe).

I'll keep thinking and considering all of your thoughts. Thanks for all the ideas.  Maybe I'll get a chance to drive someone else's car of this vintage so I can compare, or they could drive mine.

Nate - Madison, Wisconsin

 

56 Ford Customline Sedan

 

Hi, I have a '60 Galaxie with the drum/drum brakes. For a big car it doesn't take the force that I would expect. I can stop the car with my heel on the floor, but I prefer to lift it just in case. As to coming off a highway, with to combo of the 2 speed trans braking and the brakes like they are, there has never been an issue. Pedal travel is 1 inch and all cylinders are OEM. My '64 F100 is the same effort even with the manual trans and OEM cylinders. One thing that I found to play an important role is the shoe adjusters. Since mine are not automatic, adjustment is critical. Especially a few miles after shoe replacement.



292fan

My 57 car also requires heavy pressure to get anything like reasonable stopping. However, here's some info I just read in Hemmings Classic Car, October 2011 edition, that may bear on this problem. I had not heard this information in any form before. The article is entitled "Get A Grip". Briefly, it states that when Asbestos was legislated out of brake lining materials, a substitute had to be found. The replacement material developed was by the Ferodo Co. & called 3410F. Unfortunately, for older cars like ours, the new material does not have the same feel & performance as the old brake lining materials, when used with vintage cast brake drums. Later brake drums & rotors when combined with the new lining materials, were a different alloy of cast iron, containing amongst other materials, graphite... Anyone really effected by this hard brake situation might want to obtain a copy, it's very interesting reading. Unfortunately, it does not spell out any solution to the problems discussed here....

Paul

Just to throw another thing to check into the mix - do you have the shoes fitted correctly? From my memory, the shorter shoe should be to the front - leading shoe. If installed incorrectly they will work but will need extra pressure.

By your post you indicate you are 6'6" so I would think that leg strength is not the issue.

A good operating drum brake system will work just as well as a disc brake system, but will fade quicker when used excessively.

The brakes fitted to 55/6 Fords are more than adequate even when compared to late model cars.

Regards

Rick - West Australia
Do Y Blocks Downunder run upside down? Gravity Sucks!!