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Front End Alignment with Radials

Posted By oldcarmark 4 Months Ago
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DANIEL TINDER
Posted 4 Months Ago
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Complex issue.  Even if you replaced all the related suspension/steering components (bushings, A-arms, idler, etc.) with NOS parts, you would still be lucky to end up with truly correct alignment, regardless of the shop.  Just replacing tires more often could probably end up costing less also (I’m resigned, since my car tracks & handles ok now).

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA
KULTULZ
Posted 4 Months Ago
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"By the way thanks for recognizing what CAV MAN means, trooper."

Respect shown where respect is due. You earned yours ...

As for the difficulty to arrive at desirable CASTER with shim packs on older vehicles, one may have to modify the upper control arm mounting to be able to allow more adjustment. Depends on how bad the alignment is and how far one wants to to modify the car.

But everything you posted is correct (IMO). THANX!

You have a nice day.



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1/8cavman
Posted 4 Months Ago
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   Kultulz, No disrespect taken. By the way thanks for recognizing what CAV MAN means, trooper.                                                                                                                                                 56 service manual specs, Camber max. 1 1/4 degrees positive, min. 1/4 degrees, positive. Caster max. 1 1/2 degrees positive, min. 1/2 degrees positive.  Toe in 1/16 to1/8 inches.                     I don't think the car manufactures would have known what specs to change even if radial tires were available then. I read that radial tires were first made in 1948 and started to become popular by 1968. Never had the term "Radial Tuned" explained to what that involved, but I remember the phrase.                                                                                                                             The Motor Trend video was excellent. They are the real EXPERTS. But the video is aimed at modern iron. with tubular A-arms, coil over suspensions with lots of adjustment capability. Their street performance specs are great, but their caster specs can not be achieved on our cars because the upper A-arm was not made to move that far to gain that much positive caster. My 56 Bird passenger side positive 1 degree caster spec took a lot of shims and prying to achieve. This was after all new replaceable parts on a never hit front end. Same years scrubys are known to have same problems with passenger side caster settings. Frame horn flex over many years is one theory I've heard. Who cares, it is what it is.                                   Speaking of shims for aligning our old Fords, "SHIMS". When and who does your  alignments must have an assortment of shims. Harbor Freight has them.                                                  A weak or trouble part of our old Fords is the IDLER ARM in the steering linkage. Poor design and they wear out easily. Most replacement parts are very poor quality. I have replaced the bushings twice to fix play in the treaded part of this idler arm. No repair. Replaced the arm and bushings in a kit package. This junk was made in India I found out after I bought and installed it. Seller would not refund my money because he quit selling them right after I bought mine, convent. Rare Parts in Stockton Cal. make good to excellent replacements. BUT, set down when you see their prices. Wow, $455.55 for the manual steering and $ 236.00 for the power steering. Both out of stock.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              























KULTULZ
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1/8cavman has been there and knows of what he speaks.

But (no disrespect intended trooper), this period car was not designed for radials. Maybe in the sixties you remember the phrase 'RADIAL TUNED'.

Read this article and see if it helps - https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/sucp-1004-muscle-car-front-end-alignment-basics/

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/d2fa0ae9-e04e-4b46-be35-20dc.png

Also heed what he said about how trim height will change settings and your having to make allowances for it. It may take several sessions to get it just right, so be patient. You are not affecting a service repair/adjustment but actually making a modification.

And most important, the front end (especially BENDIX LINKAGE PS) has to be tight, and that includes the box.






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1/8cavman
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   I started doing suspension alignment at a German dealership in 1970. After the dealership closed in 1980 I bought all the alignment equipment and went to work at an independent repair shop. I have aligned many different foreign and domestic cars and trucks. This also includes independent rear suspensions. The factory made the cars, use their specs, unless you are willing to waste your tires. If you want to improve the handling of your car changing alignment specs will not be noticeable, except wear on your tires. A camber setting of less than O degrees will most likely wear the inside of your tires slowly and gain you no cornering performance. Caster settings are for tracking stability and helping return your steering back to center after making a turn. Basic things to improve handling. Ride height, no lower in front raised in the rear, worse thing for bad handling, puts too much weight on the front. Make the car level and maybe lower a little, 1 to 2 inches. Rear sway bar kit is big positive, without hurting ride quality. Also larger diameter front sway bars are also positive. Performance shocks such as Koni, can make handling much better, but the ride quality suffers. Un-sprung weight is also something to consider. Heavy wheels can have adverse affect on drive ability. Also remember the poor condition of our roads (grooves in the right lanes - trucks) don't help drive ability. Truckers don't get upset, we need you, this from an ex-trucker. Back to the radials, they have flexible side wall to keep a flat footprint on the road, so make sure the tire pressures are correct and at cold pressures. All of this rambling comes from 54 years of continued owner 56 t-bird. I have changed my suspension and alignments a lot. I am soften my shocks to KYB's to a nicer ride, hopefully not too soft. My 2 cents worth.     1/8  CAV MAN

oldcarmark
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paul2748 (7/25/2024)
For what it is worth, a guy I trust who restores TBirds (same front end as your 56) recommended the following: 

 Caster  3/4 to 1 degree positive
Camber  3/4 to 1 degree positive
Toe In   slightly toed in

That is stock Specs when these Cars used Bias Ply Tires. Specs for Radials would have the Camber as slightly Neg. so that Tops of Tires are leaning slightly inwards at top (Neg Camber) as opposed to stock with Bias Ply where Camber is 1 degree Pos. Neg Camber helps when cornering. Also Car will track Better going straight ahead with Radials.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Uploads/Images/a82cee8f-be33-4d66-b65d-fcd8.jpg  http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/339ed844-0bc3-4c73-8368-5dd3.jpg
KULTULZ
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"How does checking temperature across the tyres with a reatively cheap infra red thermometer fit into caster/camber and toe in?"

That is used mainly on race cars, say circle or road race.



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stuey
Posted 4 Months Ago
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Hi
I know sweet fa about alignment but I need to learn as I have messed a lot with my truck running gear.
How does checking temperature across the tyres with a reatively cheap infra red thermometer fit into caster/camber and toe in?
stuey
MoonShadow
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I'll check with my guy. He may not know he has it. Would be great. I've replaced all of the front end bushings and never had an alignment done. Car tracks straight and tire wear is pretty good but a little on the inside edge after many years.

Y's guys rule!
Looking for McCullouch VS57 brackets and parts. Also looking for 28 Chrysler series 72 parts. And early Hemi parts.

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paul2748
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For what it is worth, a guy I trust who restores TBirds (same front end as your 56) recommended the following: 

 Caster  3/4 to 1 degree positive
Camber  3/4 to 1 degree positive
Toe In   slightly toed in


54 Victoria 312;  48 Ford Conv 302, 56 Bird 312
Forever Ford
Midland Park, NJ



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