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Posted By stuey Last Year
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stuey
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I know this has been discussed at great length, but I just received an e-mail from Anglo American Oil and this cropped up

Driven HR1 v Valvoline VR1

Interesting test results by Comp Cams in the US:  Driven HR1 SAE15W-50 has a cam average wear rate of 1.778 microns per hour, whereas Valvoline VR1 SAE20W-50’s figure is 3.683! We were amazed that the Driven HR1 had less than half the cam wear of the Valvoline VR1!
After two hours of dyno running, the Driven HR1 oil also delivers more power (+2.75BHP) from the 5.7-litre scruby V8 test motor that Comp Cams use for all their tests.
Thought you might be interested
stuey  UK

55blacktie
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I'm skeptical. There are more opinions about oil than there are brands. 
Ted
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Like Jeff, I too am a bit skeptical.  Would be nice to have link to the actual test which might address some of the concerns around the numbers.

First issue: I have a problem with their wear numbers in particular.  The 1.778 micron wear factor converts to 0.0000700” and the 3.683 micron wear factor converts to 0.000145”.  The first question that comes to mind is exactly how is that wear factor being measured.  It’s sure not being done with a hand-held micrometer.  With the lobe taper being a factor to contend with, it’s extremely difficult to actually get the same measurement two times in a row.  If measuring by using the lifter, then the lifter is also a wear point.  Are they confusing camshaft wear with lifter wear?  And let’s not forget any end play in the camshaft.  If the camshaft is not sitting in the exact location in regard to the thrust plate, then the lifter will be also sitting a different height.  Too many unknowns at this point.

Second issue: New camshafts for both tests?  If so, what brand as that just throws another variable into the mix.  There are some brands out there that just wear faster than others due to the minimum amount of lobe taper that’s put on them.  If the same camshaft for both tests, then which oil was used first.  It’s a known fact that brand new camshafts must wear in on startup and there will be some wear at that point.  I have a feeling that the VL VR1 oil was used first in this case.

Third issue: All lobes checked or just one?  In statistics, you need multiple tests or results to make a conclusion.  Basing assumptions on a single test or in this case a single lobe has a confidence level of zero.

Fourth issue:  The viscosity of the oil varies between manufacturers.  I ran into this when I did my own oil test on the dyno and ended up doing all the testing of the various viscosity coils using the same brand of oil throughout the test.  Due to the difference in ranges and the test regimen being used by the various oil companies, there are some inconsistencies of the viscosities when attempting to test the same rated viscosity oils by the various manufacturers.  As a general rule, the less the actual viscosity, the higher the power output.

Something else to consider.  If the camshaft lobe is indeed wearing 3.683 microns per hour with the VR1 and assuming the wear factor is constant (which it very rarely is), then the camshaft lobe will be worn 0.020” in ~138 hours.  My experience is if the camshaft survives the first 90 seconds of running, it’s good for the long haul.  It does take up to 20 minutes of running sometimes to get enough wear on a camshaft to let you know there is problem though but rest assured that those problems started at the first crank of the engine and not sometime later.

Just food for thought so keep the comments coming.


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


Cliff
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Here's my go to for oil.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
55blacktie
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Driven HR1 might be a good, even great, oil, but I've never used it.Expensive? Readily available? How many of us are using it? Necessary?
DANIEL TINDER
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Cliff (3/24/2023)
Here's my go to for oil.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

I have to wonder: does the unique configuration of the Y-Block cam/lifter combo possibly require accelerated wear to accomplish proper break-in? Would the incredibly high Quaker State PSI spec. possibly keep the tappets from rotating?
I notice 540rat poo-poo’s the accepted long high-rpm routine (lifters not splash-lubed). But then, he’s a scrub (‘RAT’motor) guy.😁

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA
55blacktie
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Is anyone using Mobil 1 0W40 European Formula or 10W40 High Mileage? Mobil recommends them for flat-tappet cams because of their higher (not too high) zinc & phosphorus content.
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lube oil reference
I have info that came from speed talk, regarding extensive test results on 90% of oils available at time of tests,by a engineer from California who purchased 1pint of multiple engine oils race oil to diesel lab oil that should not be used in gas engines.tests wher performed in a lab.
if ther is a interest I would send a copy  to 1 person in the us  who would share with those from y blocks forever. as I live in canada the cost to send this info those in us is brutal esp
with our 73c us dollar
my email  is  ct1940@shaw.ca. will make 1 copy of all info to 1person who can distribute to  interested blockers isa
55blacktie
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Ted, do you recommend using something lighter than 40 or 50 wt. with metric rings?
DANIEL TINDER
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Ted (3/24/2023)
Like Jeff, I too am a bit skeptical.  Would be nice to have link to the actual test which might address some of the concerns around the numbers.

First issue: I have a problem with their wear numbers in particular.  The 1.778 micron wear factor converts to 0.0000700” and the 3.683 micron wear factor converts to 0.000145”.  The first question that comes to mind is exactly how is that wear factor being measured.  It’s sure not being done with a hand-held micrometer.  With the lobe taper being a factor to contend with, it’s extremely difficult to actually get the same measurement two times in a row.  If measuring by using the lifter, then the lifter is also a wear point.  Are they confusing camshaft wear with lifter wear?  And let’s not forget any end play in the camshaft.  If the camshaft is not sitting in the exact location in regard to the thrust plate, then the lifter will be also sitting a different height.  Too many unknowns at this point.

Second issue: New camshafts for both tests?  If so, what brand as that just throws another variable into the mix.  There are some brands out there that just wear faster than others due to the minimum amount of lobe taper that’s put on them.  If the same camshaft for both tests, then which oil was used first.  It’s a known fact that brand new camshafts must wear in on startup and there will be some wear at that point.  I have a feeling that the VL VR1 oil was used first in this case.

Third issue: All lobes checked or just one?  In statistics, you need multiple tests or results to make a conclusion.  Basing assumptions on a single test or in this case a single lobe has a confidence level of zero.

Fourth issue:  The viscosity of the oil varies between manufacturers.  I ran into this when I did my own oil test on the dyno and ended up doing all the testing of the various viscosity coils using the same brand of oil throughout the test.  Due to the difference in ranges and the test regimen being used by the various oil companies, there are some inconsistencies of the viscosities when attempting to test the same rated viscosity oils by the various manufacturers.  As a general rule, the less the actual viscosity, the higher the power output.

Something else to consider.  If the camshaft lobe is indeed wearing 3.683 microns per hour with the VR1 and assuming the wear factor is constant (which it very rarely is), then the camshaft lobe will be worn 0.020” in ~138 hours.  My experience is if the camshaft survives the first 90 seconds of running, it’s good for the long haul.  It does take up to 20 minutes of running sometimes to get enough wear on a camshaft to let you know there is problem though but rest assured that those problems started at the first crank of the engine and not sometime later.

Just food for thought so keep the comments coming.


So, is the routine 20 min./higher-rpm break-in run then done largely in order to insure that any problem is recognized while in the shop (as opposed to out on the road), thus preventing subsequent collateral engine damage? Maybe that routine was developed due to a past period of poor quality component parts availability (and improper lubricant choices)?

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA


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