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OVERDRIVE PROBLEMS (CONTINUED)

Posted By alanfreeman 2 Years Ago
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alanfreeman
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Unfortunately,  my overdrive problems continue.  Before I was able to get the O.D. solenoid installed, I bench tested the replacement with a 6 volt battery and it seemed to work fine.  I installed it and road tested the car repeatedly but the overdrive would not engage even at 50-60 MPH when I would back off of the accelerator.  I printed the Borg Warner O.D. Manual from the Internet and went through the tests of the electrical components still installed in the car.  The relay tested good and the solenoid seemed to be O.K. at first but after repeatedly getting it to click it started making a buzzing or throbbing noise.  I got under the car and took the solenoid cover off to check the points.   I grounded the governor wire to activate the solenoid with the ignition on so I could watch what was going on  inside the solenoid.  I saw arcing between the points and the buzzing noise was caused by the plunger trying but failing to fully extend.  There was some oil inside the solenoid which I cleaned out and I cleaned the points with some fine sandpaper.  I left the cover off and road tested the car again but the O.D. still did not engage.  Even worse, the speedometer stopped working on this test drive so the nylon speedo driven gear probably stripped out for reasons unknown.  Are the points inside the solenoid supposed to open and close when power is applied and then removed?  Watching them with the cover off the points stay closed and the plunger now appears not to be fully extending.  Also, I have not tested my governor and I do have two replacements (condition unknown).  I see that the governor can be tested with an ohm meter by spinning the gear on the wire wheel of a bench grinder.  I have a multi-meter but I don't know how to test ohms.  Can someone explain what to set the meter on and what to look for as far as a result on the meter?   Any other suggestions would be great.  Alan
FORD DEARBORN
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Alan, I'll take a stab at this.  I think your test of grounding the governor wire is proving the relay is ok because the solenoid is picking up. One contact opens while another contact closes. There is a heavy contact that removes power from the pull-in coil when the solenoid is energized because it otherwise would burn up, thus leaving the holding coil energized which is rated for continuous duty. The other contact closed and remains so thus arming the ignition grounding corcuit. The plunger will not fully extend until conditions are right for the pawl to engage. The armature moves compressing a spring which applies force on the pawl waiting for the driver to momentarily release the throttle. The balk ring moves such that it no longer blolcks the pawl from engagement.  I think you may be on the right track with your ohm meter. One scenario is the holding coil could be open thus when the pull-in coil opens by means of the large contact,, the holding coil is not energized and the solenoid drops out and the process repeats, like an old fashion door bell. I don't know what your meter looks like but there should be a selection that looks like an upsidedown horse shoe. Then select a low scale, number wise. When you join the two probes together, the meter should indicate near zero.  Working with the two solenoid wirtes, one solenoid wire should show "open circuit" which would then be the ignition grounding circuit. The other wire should indicate some very low reading, like 2, 3, or 4 ohms. That's the coil circuit. Now, open the large/heavy contact and put a piece of heavy paper between them. This will take the pull-in coil out of the circuit and the holding coil should remain. Put your ohm meter on the wire again and it should indicate a much higher ohm reading compared to the first reading taken without the paper between the heavy contacts. This should prove the two sperate coil inside the solenoid. As for the governor, it too should close it's contact indicating near zero ohms when spooled up by a wire wheel. or  more elegantly with a drill motor.  Also you entioned the speedometer quit. The same drive gear on the trans output shaft also drives the governor - something else to check.  Hope this helps, JEFF.......

64F100 57FAIRLANE500
Dobie
Posted 2 Years Ago
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The solenoid contains 2 sets of points, the high amperage pull-in points and the lower amperage hold-in points. When the governor contacts close and ground the relay the pull-in points are energized along with the hold-in points, causing the armature (the plunger) to extend. The instant the armature extends the pull-in points should open leaving only the hold-in points in the circuit. Then, when you lift off the gas, the armature completes its travel allowing the OD to engage. If the pull-in points don't open as described the high amperage will damage the solenoid windings, eventually causing complete failure of the solenoid. Oil inside the solenoid is not a good thing. It indicates the rubber seals in the transmission and the solenoid are leaking. The one in the transmission is easy to replace but the seal in the solenoid requires complete disassembly of the solenoid. If it were me I'd get a new solenoid. Van Pelt Sales and 5ht Avenue Garage both have new ones. There are also places the will rebuild them as long as the windings are in good condition. To test the governor you can just set your ohm meter to read continuity and spin it up with your wire wheel or chuck it up in a drill. I'm betting yours is good, they rarely give trouble.
Lord Gaga
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Clean the points on the RELAY. Test with Ohm meter to be sure they are making good contact.

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Florida_Phil
Posted 2 Years Ago
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I have been down this road numerous times with my TBird.  I test my governor using a long wire with a dash light wired in series running from the battery to the governor wire.   If you put the rear of the car on jack stands, you can run the car through the gears.  When the governor grounds, the light should go on.  Use strong jack stands and take care or you won't like the result. Sad


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DANIEL TINDER
Posted 2 Years Ago
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A sidenote: I discovered that when bench testing a solenoid, some that appear to operate normally will actually not, under force-load.  So, I built a plywood testing jig (easier than installing on the trans) to weed out the defective NOS units offered online (likely returned to the dealer’s jobber back in 50s, and then resold).

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA
alanfreeman
Posted 2 Years Ago
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I was successful in getting my original solenoid to work properly (at least when bench tested) and also mounted on the transmission when I energize the blue wire I can hear the strong click of it engaging.  Turns out that the problem was that the points on the side of the unit were misaligned so they were not making good contact.  I manipulated them with a needle nose pliers which did the trick.  I took the car out for another test drive bur the O.D. still would not engage when I backed off the gas at 50-60 MPH.  I can think of only two more options before I give up and seek professional help.  When I removed this O.D from the car that it was originally in, about 1 inch of the end of the cable broke off.  When I installed it in this car I connected the cable as far to the end as possible with the slightly shorter cable.  It may be that the shift lever is always slightly cocked forward because of the shorter cable thus manually disabling the O.D.  I am going to disconnect the cable, pull the shift lever all of the way back and then see if the O.D. engages on a test drive.  The second possibility is a bad governor.  I have another one to swap in but I will have to make a special thin 1 3/8 end wrench like the one in the Shop Manual to remove and reinstall the replacement.  
miker
Posted 2 Years Ago
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It’s been years, but IIRC that lever has to be all the way back. I usually set them so the handle had 1/4” or so travel before it bottomed out, just to be sure. Good luck.

miker
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Florida_Phil
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Most O/D problems turn out to be wiring issues.  Go back and check all your connections and grounds. Especially check the kick down switch as it's a source of some problems. I disabled my switch due to the circuit messing with my Pertronix unit.   The O/D circuit works backward from what you might think.  If you have verified both your governor and solenoid are working, you most likely have a wiring issue.


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peeeot
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Do you have engine braking when you let off the gas? If the shift lever is far enough back to allow an overdrive shift, you should freewheel with no engine braking. If you have engine braking but no overdrive ratio, the overdrive is mechanically locked out. Additionally, you should only be able to move the overdrive shift lever toward the front of the car (locked out position) about 1/4” before meeting a good amount of spring tension. If the lever easily flops freely in either direction, there is a problem with the shift rail binding or else with the return spring.

1954 Crestline Victoria 312 4-bbl, 3-speed overdrive


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