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Fordomatic help requested ('57 thunderbird)

Posted By yblock57 4 Years Ago
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yblock57
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DryLakesRacer (10/18/2020)
Hope it all helps. My manual is a repop along with the car manual and blow apart manual.


Where'd you get the blow apart manual?

Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird

yblock57
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I did get the NOS gov installed last night. Unfortunately it didn't make any difference in shifting. Still shifts at 33 mph regardless of kick-down rod adjustment. Removed it from the equation at least.

The NOS gov did NOT have a spring as several have mentioned on here. Installed without a spring and was hoping that would get me in the ballpark, but no dice.

Any suggestions on where to look next appreciated.

I know I need to get some pressure readings and have bought a gauge. Will run the tests and post back.

Thanks

Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird

DryLakesRacer
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On line I think.... it’s a repop. Check the old Ford supplier’s like Carpenter, Concours. Etc: 7 pages of the auto trans... includes part #’s

56 Vic, B'Ville 200 MPH Club Member, So Cal.
yblock57
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DryLakesRacer (10/20/2020)
On line I think.... it’s a repop. Check the old Ford supplier’s like Carpenter, Concours. Etc: 7 pages of the auto trans... includes part #’s


Thank you sir.

Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird

yblock57
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I did a little checking on the throttle linkage. Dad said he set the linkage and accelerator pedal height per the shop manual with the 1/4" drill bit to lock the pieces in place and get everything set. I have not double-checked his work, but it looks correct. What seems to be an issue here is the throttle stops at about 1/2 travel. If you remove the kick-down rod it moves completely open with no resistance. I can't believe this was not noticed until now. I've included a link below to a video I made to help explain what I'm looking at.



This was an issue when we put the transmission back in and was explored then. I thought this had been resolved but obviously not. For the sake of comparison, I made a video of a friend's '57 thunderbird with the same functioning setup and his kick-down rod appears to have the same amount of travel (approx. 1") 



I'm going to go back through the steps listed in the manual on setting up the bell-crank linkage and see if that possibly changes things. I feel a positive stop when depressing the rod and it springs back up to the top again. Looking at page 20 in the fordomatic manual it mentions the throttle lever internal stop can be bent towards or away from the valve body to change idle pressure. I see this as a strong possibility given the limited movement I'm getting.

The fact that the 2-3 shift point stays the same when I removed the kick-down rod indicates that there's an internal issue possibly in the valve body causing high line pressure.

I'm going to get pressure readings and then drop the pan and have a look.

Any other suggestions?




Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird

oldcarmark
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The Rod should move much further than that allowing full wide open Carburetor. I think you are onto the right Track by checking the Lever assembly on the Transmission. That Rod controls Pressure right throughout the Throttle Position. Should not be driven with Rod disconnected.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Uploads/Images/a82cee8f-be33-4d66-b65d-fcd8.jpg  http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/339ed844-0bc3-4c73-8368-5dd3.jpg
yblock57
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I drug my butt off the couch last night and got the pressure readings on the thunderbird. As suspected, they're higher than the ranges specified in the book. The stall tests were low due to things binding at half-throttle due to the kick-down rod not moving enough. I made sure everything was up to temp before getting readings.

I rechecked the linkage adjustments before I started the test. The only thing I couldn't get in spec was the accelerator pedal height. Book says '57 thunderbird should be 4 7/8". I couldn't get any more than 3" with the adjustment set as far as it would travel. Not sure that matters much in the scheme of things but wanted to make a note of it.

Line pressure readings (psi):
Idle in drive   — 80 —   Book says 55-70
1k rpm in drive   — 140 —   Book says 80-85
Stall in drive   — 150 —   Book says 147-180 (not really full throttle as my linkage limits me around 1/2 throttle so this is probably a lot higher)
Stall in reverse   —190 —   Book says 194-216 (same as above)

Thought about dropping the pan but was too tired. Now that I have the numbers, that confirms what we talked about. I removed the kick-down rod from the transmission and measured 3/4" movement. I think it needs to move more. It would explain the linkage binding. I'll be looking closely at the 'L' bracket on the throttle body when I drop the pan.

This is starting to make sense. Trans is seeing too much pressure and shifting late because of it. Hopefully the 150ish miles put on it haven't damaged anything.

Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird

DryLakesRacer
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I drove my Ford0 once with the throttle pressure rod off by mistake. The car went thru the gears 2-3 fine but shifted quick, 15 mph. Not knowing it was off I stepped on the gas harder at the next light and it still shifted at 15 again when I knew it should have been higher. That’s when I found it off. Sounds like pressure at low speed has a lot to do with what’s happening. Good luck.

56 Vic, B'Ville 200 MPH Club Member, So Cal.
yblock57
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Ok, got the pan off and took at look at things. Made another video showing the TV linkage against the ‘L’ bracket. It’s obviously putting pressure on the valve at the ‘Rest’ position and limiting travel of the linkage. I think this is the key to the entire problem.



I went ahead and pulled the valve body and disassembled. Everything looks good and all springs are present and accounted for. All pistons move freely.
Would y’all go ahead and bend the ‘L’ bracket back and check for free movement and reassemble? For grins I hooked up the TV rod to the trans with valve body removed and I get full articulation with no binding.
Here’s a closer look at the TV & L stop



I'm concerned that even bending this L won't give me the amount of travel I need without seriously distorting things. Thoughts?

Thanks,

Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird

yblock57
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I did not bend the L bracket. Didn't feel right. Didn't look like that was the actual issue.

After several of y'all pointed out and I initially missed, the back side of the throttle valve was NOT moving freely. It was being stopped by the back cover plate that had a small protrusion just barely covering the edge of the TV bore, thus creating a hard stop on the valve. Pics I viewed in the FOM manual clearly show the TV protruding out the backside of the bore. Mine was not. Apologies on the videos. I accidentally stopped in between showing the issue.




I don't have an explanation on why that back cover plate was interfering with the valve, but I went ahead and filed it down to get the clearance I needed. It only goes on one-way so no way it could've been flipped or put on backwards. Now it operates with MUCH more movement than before. I suspect this will translate into the additional articulation I need to get the linkage set correctly and have full throttle without binding.



I'll be sure and check movement of everything when I reinstall the valve body and before the pan goes back on. If anyone has any additional thoughts or ideas on what I should look at while the pan's off, I'm all ears!

I'll be setting the TV rod using my pressure gauge when it gets to that point. I want to verify this gets me back into the ranges shown in the FOM shop manual.

This has been a great learning experience. I can't thank everyone enough who's chimed in with all the help and suggestions. Very much appreciated! I'll be sure and post my findings.

Kent — Round Rock, TX
'56 F-100  | '56 Crown Vic  |  '57 Fairlaine 500  |  '57 Thunderbird



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