I really do have to say thank you to everyone on here for all the help and in site for my y-block. I will stay a part of this site and continue to help where I can. If any one needs parts let me know because I do have a few spare pieces and parts I have picked up over the years. Once again thank you to everyone and if you would like updates on the build let me know and I will be glad to post updates and pictures.  Roger
Idaho Springs Colorado

Wildman.  Charlie's comments regarding having your block deck surfaces squared and going through the dry assembly process to determine how much decking is appropriate to zero deck the pistons are good ones.  Maximum compression like original helps to make everything else work as intended such as your your camshaft.

Most y-blocks from the factory have pistons that measure .025 below the deck surface.  Too, most y-block decks are not machined true when they came from the factory.  When I say 'true', that often means that the two banks are not at 90 degrees to each other AND that the decks may not be accurate from the front surface of the bank to the rear of the same bank in the distance measured from the crankshaft mains.

Zero decking becomes even more important when aftermarket replacement pistons have been used.  From most manufacturers (example: Silv-O-Lite or Sealed Power) the replacement piston's compression height is less than the original Ford specification by .020.  They indicate that on the front of the piston box!  When you add-up these types of tolerances (factory piston in-the-hole amount + replacement piston compression height change + composite head gasket thickness increase) the effective volume increase of the combustion chamber (space above the piston) will significantly decrease your engine's static compression ratio.  The lowering of your engine's compression ratio will torpedo engine operating performance.

Compression ratio is key to low end performance of your vehicle's throttle response and drive-ability.  I'm not talking competition stuff here, just normal street stop-and-go traffic stuff, and highway get-up and go passing ability.  Again, compression is key to the performance of whatever camshaft you use.  While you may not be involved in any kind of performance application, you do not want to use any rendition of parts supply house over-the-counter replacement type camshaft offered by Sealed Power, Melling, Elgin or Ford.  These cams have timing events that are best suited for work truck intended use only and are far removed from what was supplied in 1957 FoMoCo y-block cars and trucks.

Put another way, IF you simply rebuild a Ford y-block with the standard parts supplied by a parts house today, between the standard replacement camshaft, replacement pistons, and composite gaskets you use, your engine will not perform as well as a FoMoCo y-block from the factory did when it was new in 1957!  Block decking, and use of an appropriate aftermarket specialty camshaft are key components to bringing your dad's original 1964 engine's performance up to 1957 level. 


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

I don't understand what you mean by "rebuilt minus pistons rings and heads."  It's sounding like the engine is apart.  Is that right?  If so, have the deck of the block milled .030 which is about the difference between composition gaskets and shim gaskets.  If you want to take it farther, when you do have pistons, the rods and crank with all related machine work completed do a dry assembly to measure the depth of the pistons in the block at tdc and have that amount milled from the block,  That will 0 the deck, maximizing your compression.

I agree with Charlie about sleeving.  It is a waste of money.  In my area, 10 years ago, it would cost about $1200 for 8 sleeves.  With inflation, I would not be surprised if it now costs more.
Most 292s will go .060 over reliably and many can go bigger with no problem.


Lawrenceville, GA

Wildman.  A y-block will take serious over-boring of the cylinders without having to worry about reliability or overheating issues.

It's very common in some circles to bore a y-block 292 for '56 - '60 312 standard or standard oversize pistons.  IF you take the 292 with its 3.75 inch bore and oversize it to the 312 bore of 3.800 you'll have 299 cubic inches using your 292 crank.  IF you go to .040 oversize of the 312 bore, you'll be at 3.840 and have 306 cubic inches.  The beauty of this is that you will be able to use over-the-counter available standard oversize pistons

Two cautions . . .
1) have your engine block sonic tested.  Core shift in the casting process is common.  IF there is core shift in your block, the machine shop may be able to slightly adjust the boring of an affected cylinder cylinder so that appropriate wall thickness is maintained.
2) have the complete rotating assembly of your engine balanced in doing your rebuild.  Your engine will run smoother and your parts will last longer than they would otherwise.  Individuals who do a lot of engine rebuilding will tell you that the original FoMoCo balancing was not-the-best back-in-the day.

Comments . . .
1) Sleeving cylinders is expensive.  Sleeving 8 cylinders will seriously add up.  I would recommend avoiding sleeving a y-block unless I didn't have other options.  That said, we have one Forum member, Rowen, who has a 312 block that was totally sleeved for the purpose of reducing the cylinder bore to 292 size, IF I recall correctly.  
2) I believe you'll find that you will have better fuel economy with your y-block than you would have with an FE engine in your truck.

Enjoy doing this project with your son!  


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

the motor is already .030 oversized and is rebuilt minus pistons rings and heads. I have a crab foot 4 bbl intake off of a thunder bird I found a while back and a fomoco 600cfm 4bll. going to be running dual 2 1/2 inch exhaust t-98 4 speed original matching numbers 9 inch rear end with 391 gears 2 wheel drive camper special with all the custom cab crome. eventually I will take the block and oversize it to .060 and then sleave it back to .030 to help protect the block from any damage.

The first step in any project like this is to determine what you have.  A lot can be changed in over 50 years.

Assuming the engine is correct for 1964, then G heads should provide at least a slight increase in compression no matter the gasket used.  If a total rebuild is planned at some point, then you can mill the block and possibly install domed pistons at that time to get the compression up quite a bit over the stock 1964 configuration.


Lawrenceville, GA

that will help when I get to that point in the project and I will be looking into those differences. The last time I did the gaskets on that motor I did use steel head gaskets. I am glad that I came across the y-block forever site because I am trying to keep her true to her roots and stay with the y-block family as long as I can before I have to put a FE block in it. My 11 year old son asked to help with the build and before that it was me and me father when I was 10 so I am excited about the project once again and hoping that I can make at least one cruise in Golden Colorado this fall or at least make the first one in the spring.  As the project picks up speed I will keep people posted on the progress and hope that I can find all that we need to make her road worthy. 

Wildman.  Yes, there is a significant difference between the '64 Ford y-block cylinder heads and those produced from '57 - '59.
As John Mummert's chart indicates, '57 - '59 heads used the 1.92 inch intake valves while the '64 heads used 1.64 inch intake valves.
All of Ford advertised compression ratios for cylinder heads on different y-block applications are a bit inflated.

'57 - '58 application ECZ-G heads had 69cc combustion chambers and on a 292 engine would have been advertised as yielding a 9.0:1 or 9.1:1 compression ratio
'58 - '59 application 5752-113 heads had 72 cc combustion chambers and on a 292 engine would have been advertised as yielding a 8.8:1 compression ratio
'59 application 5750-471 heads had 82 cc combustion chambers and on a 292 engine would have been advertised as yielding a 8.0:1 compression ratio

While O.E.M. style steel shim cylinder head gaskets are still available for purchase, most of us have turned to the composite style cylinder head gaskets now widely marketed as replacement head gaskets for the '54-'64 FoMoCo y-block engines.  The use of these, however, results in increasing the effective volume of the combustion chamber above the piston and engine block deck surface.  This increase in effective cylinder head volume lowers the static compression ratio of your engine slightly.

The actual compression ratio you end up with on your y-block engine using composite type cylinder head gaskets, depends upon which brand of gaskets you use.  The link below provides information on the difference between the O.E.M. steel shim style gaskets and various manufacturers' brand composite type head gaskets you might select in terms of how much each increases the effective combustion chamber volume of your selected cylinder heads.  

Click the link below for cylinder head gasket compressed volume increases to the big intake valve heads you might be planning to use . . .
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/2012/06/30/head-gasket-volume-calculation/

Hope this helps!    


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

the reason I'm looking for 1957 312 ecz-g heads is because the intake valve is bigger and the compression ratio is higher factory then the stock 292 heads from 1964.

Paul.  Lord Gaga is correct.
Yes, all '57 Ford passenger car and T-Bird y-block equipped engines were manufactured with ECZ-G cylinder heads, EXCEPT the supercharged 312 engines which were equipped with cylinder heads with  larger combustion chamber that yielded a lower static compression ratio. The supercharged heads had the casting identification marks EDB-C, EDB-D, or EDB-E. 

Info. source:  John Mummert's website, per the link below . . .
http://ford-y-block.com/cylinderheadchart.htm


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York