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Holley running rich

Posted By geo56 8 Years Ago
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geo56
Posted 8 Years Ago
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After reading input from viewers on this site and after viewing several Holley on line videos, I decided to remove the float level sight hole covers and discovered that the primary sloshed out a little too freely when i rocked the car and the secondary wept out the side rather liberally as soon as I unscrewed the sight hole screw. So, I lowered the primary float a little and the secondary float a lot until the fuel wept out of the sight holes just a little when I rocked the car. Result is no or nearly no more soot in the exhaust extensions. Car now runs sweet when warmed up and idles better than it ever has. I still have a few bugs to iron out and found little if anything on line pertaining to operation of manual choke with a Holley 4 barrel. What I mean is, Do I need to pull the choke out part way even on a warm morning. Lately, with the Tulsa mornings being in the upper 70's I have to feather the accelerator pedal or pull out the choke knob slightly when I pull out of the driveway or the motor hesitates when I accelerate off idle. Hesitation is not a problem off idle when the motor is warmed up , However when the motor is warmed up It will hesitate slightly when I accelerate while I am at a cruising. I noticed I can rev the engine, cold or hot, with trans in park, and get no hesitation at all . As the Holley acelerator pump video suggested I used my feeler gauge set at .015 to check the gap between the pump rod and adjustment screw while the throttle was wide  open and felt a lot of drag. Unless I get better advice, I think I'll adjust the screw with the spring to lessen the drag on the gauge. Anyway, I'm hopeing someone who is running a Holley 4 barrel with a manual choke can verify from experience to me that it is either normal or not to need to choke an engine on start up on a very warm morning after the car has set all night.   
George
geo56
Posted 8 Years Ago
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I think I have solved the soot in tailpipes problem by doing a wet setting on the floats. The primary was a little high and secondary float wept out gas liberally as soon as I unscrewed the sight hole plug. Black smoke and soot seem to be gone and aside from some hesitation problems at times the car runs and idles great, A question that I have and could not find an answer to on line is this: Even on a warm morning (upper 70's lower 80's) after the car has sat all night, do I still need to pull the choke knob out to some degree for the car to accelerate from idle without hesitation until the motor is warmed to optimum temp? The way it runs now as it starts immediately on 3 or so rolls. Without pulling out the choke knob, it will hesitate off idle as I pull out of the driveway. When the motor is warmed up off idle hesitation is gone but it still hesitates somewhat when I accelerate at a cruising speed. Car doesn't hesitate at all hot or cold if i rev the engine with the trans in park. I found lots of info on line about installing manual chokes but virtually nothing on operation of. Hope someone with a Holley 4 barrel with manual choke can advise me on this. Thanks     George
miker
Posted 8 Years Ago
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The ambient air temp plays into it, but you still need to build some heat in the combustion chambers and intake manifold for the engine to be "warm". So a little choke for richness and high idle isn't uncommon on a cold motor even on a warm day. Not much, it's easier to flood it. If you're sure you're good on the accelerator pump (and I'd look there first), and the proper idle mixture, you might be just a tad lean. That can cause a hesitation under load. Couple jet sizes at most, but based on your other post, I'd look more at the throttle plate set ups a mentioned above.

miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ
oldcarmark
Posted 8 Years Ago
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geo56 (7/17/2017)
After reading input from viewers on this site and after viewing several Holley on line videos, I decided to remove the float level sight hole covers and discovered that the primary sloshed out a little too freely when i rocked the car and the secondary wept out the side rather liberally as soon as I unscrewed the sight hole screw. So, I lowered the primary float a little and the secondary float a lot until the fuel wept out of the sight holes just a little when I rocked the car. Result is no or nearly no more soot in the exhaust extensions. Car now runs sweet when warmed up and idles better than it ever has. I still have a few bugs to iron out and found little if anything on line pertaining to operation of manual choke with a Holley 4 barrel. What I mean is, Do I need to pull the choke out part way even on a warm morning. Lately, with the Tulsa mornings being in the upper 70's I have to feather the accelerator pedal or pull out the choke knob slightly when I pull out of the driveway or the motor hesitates when I accelerate off idle. Hesitation is not a problem off idle when the motor is warmed up , However when the motor is warmed up It will hesitate slightly when I accelerate while I am at a cruising. I noticed I can rev the engine, cold or hot, with trans in park, and get no hesitation at all . As the Holley acelerator pump video suggested I used my feeler gauge set at .015 to check the gap between the pump rod and adjustment screw while the throttle was wide  open and felt a lot of drag. Unless I get better advice, I think I'll adjust the screw with the spring to lessen the drag on the gauge. Anyway, I'm hopeing someone who is running a Holley 4 barrel with a manual choke can verify from experience to me that it is either normal or not to need to choke an engine on start up on a very warm morning after the car has set all night.   
George

The accelerator Pump Arm should start to move the Pump as soon as the Throttle starts to open. With the Throttle wide open(Engine off) you should be able to insert a .015 Feeler Gauge between the Arm and the Pump. You need that little bit of extra to prevent over stretching the Pump Diaphragm. If You get that setup correctly You may find the hesitation at mid Throttle is better or gone. If not You could try increasing the Jet Size 2 Sizes. Not sure whats in there now. Holley suggests 2 sizes up as One Size will not make much difference. I have the Automatic Choke on Mine and its Active even in mid Summer. I have it setup on the 2 notches Lean so its not on too long. Just enough to get it warmed up. One thing I did with mine at "Greenbirds" suggestion was replace the 2 Needle and Seats with Steel substitutes which are used for "Alternate Fuels". I think they were .130 Size  which You can find on Ebay or order from a Holley supplier. Ebay Item #  230491761264. The Ones that come in the Kit are soft Tipped and can stick closed when exposed to all the Crap in Today's Gas. You may want to add a Fuel Pressure Regulator. Holley suggests 5 lb minimum and 7 Max. Holley Carbs don't do well with Pressure higher than 7. The fuel can actually pass through the Needle and Seat causing flooding. Sounds like  You are on the right Track. Keep tuning it.

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geo56
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Thanks for the info on the choke to Miker. I couldn't find any info on line. She shure runs smoother and accelerates better on very warm mornings with the choke pulled out about an inch or so. She still hesitates when accelerating at a cruising speed. I set the primary pump with a feeler gauge at .015. I even set it at another turn both clockwise and counter clockwise and still get hesitation. I think the next thing to try are larger jets than the 55's that are in it or to change the squirter. I think I'll call Holley tomorrow for advice. Idle screws are wound out 1 turn .
miker
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Go back and look at oldcarmark's post on jet sizes. If, big if, the throttle blades are good and the accel pump is set right, a couple jet sizes might be it. If 57's or 58's don't show a difference, then I'd look elsewhere.

If that doesn't work, then check the power valve, if it's stuck, or a real low vacuum, you might have a lean case. That's pretty easy to take a look at doing a jet change. But I don't think it's likely.

miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ
geo56
Posted 8 Years Ago
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I hope I didn't insult all the people trying to help me on this site when I said I was going to call Holley tech tomorrow. As my car seems to run much better with the choke pulled out slightly , it would make sense that it might be running a little lean. I have read that Holly technitions can recommend the proper jet and or squirter size when given the application. At least close. DOPF # on my carb indicates a service replacement on a 289. I can imagine that it should be adjusted richer if it is pulling a heavy Victoria with a boat anchor 292. Also it might be an apples/oranges comparison but my Vicky ran great with an autolite 2100 2 barrel with #50 jets. My Holly has #55 jets. I feel I am getting close to getting this carb right  If jets and squirters don't fix it, one other possibility might be the vacuum advance on the distributer. I'm just a parts changer but a while back, when I was running a 2 barrel, a hot shot friend of mine adjusted the vacuum advance with an allen wrench from its default setting. Does anyone know the default setting on these? Thanks      George
oldcarmark
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The adjustable vacuum advance should be setup to give about 8 degrees of available advance. Turning the Allen Key CC shortens the Advance. CW gives more. There's probably 26 Degrees Centrifugal built into the Distributor. 8 Degrees Initial + 8 Degrees Vacuum+ 26 Degrees Centrifugal totals 42 Degrees. That's about where You want to be. Changing the Advance Springs to Lighter Ones will allow full Advance by 2500 RPM. The Vacuum Advance is probably set at 16-18 the way it is now. You can check by using a Timing Light and applying vacuum to the Advance and see how much timing changes. Use the Allen Key to adjust it. Asking the Holley Guys for advise is a good Idea. That's what they are there for. I am having a similar problem with My Buddies 390 Holley that We swapped along with a Cardone Distributor. I will be following Your results and maybe something will apply to the One I am working on.

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2721955meteor
Posted 8 Years Ago
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my new holley came with 65 main jets,installed 60s the stumble off idea came,just went back to65s stumble got,as well the fuel hear has more ethenall in summer months,and i am running 87 obtain.should go to mid grade i guess
GREENBIRD56
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Getting a stable float setting will do wonders for a "wet" carb. Raising and lowering the float level (within reason) will tune the jets a bit (richer or leaner a shade) so long as fuel is not running out the sight holes.
Probably will have to change to a larger accelerator pump "shooter" - its the device that makes the mixture richer as you open the throttle.  

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 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona


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