Profile Picture

Tri-Metal vs Bi-Metal Rod & Crank Bearings

Posted By 55blacktie 6 Months Ago
You don't have permission to rate!
Author
Message
55blacktie
Question Posted 6 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 1.6K
It appears that bi-metal bearings are becoming much more common than tri-metal bearings. The bi-metal bearings cost a lot less because they are less costly to make; and most newer vehicles have bi-metal bearings. I'm leaning towards Clevite P-Series tri-metal bearings for my build. Is there a better choice?
Ted
Posted 6 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Co-Administrator

Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 11 hours ago
Posts: 7.3K, Visits: 204.6K
Jeff.  I saw your email before seeing this.  Just respond to this thread if my email response did not sufficiently answer your question.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


KULTULZ
Posted 6 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 hours ago
Posts: 1.5K, Visits: 302.3K
Crying
What About The Rest of US ???



____________________________

55blacktie
Posted 6 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)Supercharged (2.6K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 1.6K
Ted's explanation is rather lengthy, so I'll paraphrase: "[T]he quality of the bearing does not come to the forefront as the oil film is protecting both the journal and the bearing. If the oil film is doing its job, then there should be no metal to metal contact and thus no wearing taking place...[T]he quality of the oil and the actual finish on the journals are much bigger considerations than the brand of bearing being used...I see very little difference in the wear attributes of the less expensive bearings versus those bearings that simply cost more..."

Good oil, perfectly round & smooth journals, and the proper journal-to-bearing clearance to ensure proper lubrication of the journals and bearings are your best insurance for longevity; the type and brand of bearings used are secondary. 
Ted
Posted 6 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Co-Administrator

Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)Co-Administrator (12.8K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 11 hours ago
Posts: 7.3K, Visits: 204.6K
KULTULZ (5/6/2024)
Crying
What About The Rest of US ???

Here’s the response I gave to Jeff when he emailed me.

Considering that the latest crop of overhead cam engines being made by Ford do not use cam bearings on the camshaft journals, you have to question if bearings are required at all. Zero wear at those locations providing the engine had not been starved for oil. I have run into several instances where bearings were not available and I have simply made new bearings from brass for those engines. Many of the big diesel engines have brass cam bearings and they work for several hundred thousand miles. Early on, many of the oem engines did not use replaceable engine bearings and instead used 'poured babbit' for the interface between the moving parts. I was told early on that replaceable bearings were used to simply speed up the engine assembly process at the factory. Unless the oem's are able to control the machining tolerances to 0.0001", then replaceable bearings help to compensate for machining tolerances.

My engine building associates and I have had some interesting after-hours conversations regarding engine bearings. My thought process is as long as the clearance is suitable for the engine oil that's being used, then the quality of the bearing does not come to the forefront as the oil film is protecting both the journal and the bearing. If the oil film is doing its job, then there should be no metal-to-metal contact and thus no wear taking place. Hence those engines with 100K+ miles that show no bearing wear. Nitro methane or detonation does change that in that the dynamic oil wave gets pushed out of the way and then the quality or hardness of the bearing does come to the forefront. High compression engines tend to prefer a harder material for the bearings as a soft babbit will deform under extreme pressure loading. For most normally aspirated engine builds, the quality of the oil and the actual finish on the journals are much bigger considerations than the brand of the bearing being used. For some engines, there's not much choice in the brands of bearings but as a rule, I see very little difference in the wear attributes of the less expensive bearings versus those bearings that simply cost more.

Regardless of the bearing manufacturer that's being used, all engine bearings are checked with a ball micrometer for initial thickness before installation. It's also ideal that all the bearings being used within a set are the same lot number or were all manufactured at the same time. Measuring the bearings before actual short block assembly takes place will find those bearings that are not consistent in sizing. When the bearing clearances do not fall into the desired range with a particular set of bearings, that is sometimes alleviated by simply using the exact same brand of bearing and part number that was manufactured on a different day. Changing brands of bearings is also an option when a particular set of bearings does not fit the clearance criteria that's being targeted for.

While I have used the Engine Tech cam bearings in the Ford Y builds, I have not used their other bearings. I have used a variety of brands of bearings for the rods and mains and there are none that did not get the job done as designed.


For street engines, I have had similar results with both Bi-metal and Tri-metal bearings.  Bi-metal bearings are typically softer and will imbed impurities within the top layer much better than the harder tri-metal bearings making the bi-metal bearings more suited to street and high mileage engines.  Tri-metal bearings are harder and more suited for a racing environment where higher pressures are put on the bearings which may force the dynamic oil wave to be minimized thus putting the bearing in an oil starved environment.  No serious detriments to using the more expensive tri-metal bearings in a street engine but you’ll not see an advantage except where the oil supply to be bearings is interrupted and then you have a few extra seconds before catastrophic failure takes place.



Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


KULTULZ
Posted 6 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)Supercharged (3.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 hours ago
Posts: 1.5K, Visits: 302.3K
Wink

...damn ...

!!! THANX TED !!!



____________________________



Reading This Topic


Site Meter