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Carter AFB adjustments not working

Posted By Roy 5 Years Ago
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Roy
Posted 5 Years Ago
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I feel great! It was a good puzzle.
I left some ideas on your vibration post. Hope they help a little.


Life isn't about arriving at the end in a pristine, well preserved body; It's about sliding in sideways, all clapped out, yelling "What a ride!"

oldcarmark
Posted 5 Years Ago
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Good to Hear. You should  feel pretty good about getting it sorted out. Obviously doing what You do for a living You are very organized, methodical, and Patient. A Combination of 3 Traits not very many of us has. Do You have any Insights that would Apply to my Vibration Problem in One of the other Topics?

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Roy
Posted 5 Years Ago
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Well, the Vicky drove away happy today, and, the owner made it home, still happy. Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. As I said I would, here is what I did and what I found as I went. I actually made a list of each procedure in proper order to allow me to do the most without having to work around hot manifolds. With the exception of replacing the carb with a new one, which would have been next, I think everyone's suggestion was used.

It was 90 degrees and humid when I went out in the morning. 
1.  The car was dead cold and started up allowed me to drive off. It was missing on at least one cylinder, but otherwise it wasn't as bad as it had been. Then the choke came off and it went bad fast. Backfiring through the carb. Lean condition. 
2.  I pulled it into the garage and sprayed carb cleaner around the intake and carb. No leaks detected.
3.  I pulled the plugs. All but 1 was covered with dry black soot. #6 was perfectly clean. (There was the miss) The others, though black, were clean where the spark is. Plugs are Autolite 45 and are gapped at .030. These are new except a couple of test runs. They were cleaned and reinstalled. 
4.  Compression test: 1) 95, 2) 102, 3) 96, 4) 105, 5) 102, 6) 106, 7) 85, 8) 110. Not good, but it isn't new.
5.  Vacuum started at 11" before starting the work and ended up finally at 15" @ 575 rpm. Again, not good, but better than the 8" I had when I first started working on it a month ago.
6.  I carefully opened the carb and both bowls were equally full to 29/32" down from the gasket surface, which is a meaningless measurement except to tell me they are both the same.
7.  Both floats were at 7/32". Ford Shop Manual says 5/32" and most Carter and Edelbrock manuals say 7/16". Big difference so I went a little lower than Ford said but was trying to not flood over, so it seemed reasonable.
8. The metering rods were not operating the same when you opened the little covers and revved the engine. I'd think they should modulate pretty much in unison because they are both operated by the same vacuum signal. I lightly cleaned them with a scotchbrite and noticed one had a very slight burr on the tip, like it had been dropped. (I was looking at this stuff with a lighted magnifying glass) I cleaned the burr off. The jet also was scarred up inside so I cleaned it up a little. In the end, both worked harmoniously.
9. One of the little soft plugs underneath looked like it may have been leaking so I tapped it with a punch. These are very soft, so use very little force.
10. The accelerator pump wasn't squirting and I found the new check valve (brass weight) from the kit wasn't allowing it. I went back to the original and it worked.
11. I went through every hole, vent or whatever I could find with welding tip cleaners, carb cleaner and compressed air. I was careful not to scratch anything or change the opening sizes. 
12. New plug wire were installed. 7mm spiral silicone.
12. I put it all back together and it started and ran great. I had a little response from the mixture screws, but very little. The engine would die if I screwed them in, but it was a slow death. Holley's die fast and the turning mixture screws gives a very fast and obvious response, maybe Carters just don't? 

I talked to the owner and he said it ran better than ever and his wife who was following him said it doesn't smoke anymore. I wish the mixture screws would have been more responsive, but I guess its working.

Thanks everyone one for your help!
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Life isn't about arriving at the end in a pristine, well preserved body; It's about sliding in sideways, all clapped out, yelling "What a ride!"

Roy
Posted 5 Years Ago
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miker (7/16/2019)
There’s a lot of good more modern carbs out there, and I’m kind of a fan of Edelbrock AFB’s because they’ve worked well for me. So have Holley’s modified for blow thru boost.

Don’t toss the old one, there’s a restoration guy out there looking for one and willing to pay good money for even a core.


I hear that Miker! I have 2 Edelbrock Performers on a Y Block that's waiting for me to finish the car. 

I'll try to get this AFB going first or figure out that it was something else like the plug wires. I learned a long time ago not to throw stuff away, in fact I have a bunch of old carbs hanging around if anyone needs one. I saw 3 or 4 Q-Jets in the garage the other day.  I've got some old Stromberg 97's and Aerotypes, 94's, and a bunch of others, maybe 50 or so if anyone needs something. I also have a bunch of old starters and generators but most are Mopar or Delco. I bought 2 flatheads, 2 flathead radiators, a 94 and a 97 carb on the way home today.



Life isn't about arriving at the end in a pristine, well preserved body; It's about sliding in sideways, all clapped out, yelling "What a ride!"

miker
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There’s a lot of good more modern carbs out there, and I’m kind of a fan of Edelbrock AFB’s because they’ve worked well for me. So have Holley’s modified for blow thru boost.

Don’t toss the old one, there’s a restoration guy out there looking for one and willing to pay good money for even a core.

miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ
Roy
Posted 5 Years Ago
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This car is well worth a new carb for sure. In fact, its worth a new engine for that matter and I just happen to have a fresh stock 272 sitting on a stand with no car to call home. The owner has been asking about it... Smile I told him he can have it for what I have into it for parts and machine work only. 

Life isn't about arriving at the end in a pristine, well preserved body; It's about sliding in sideways, all clapped out, yelling "What a ride!"

oldcarmark
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Roy (7/16/2019)
Thanks oldcarmark. I actually talked to the owner about picking up another carb, so that may be the way we go. This weekend I'm going to try everything that's been recommended here by everyone. There has been some very good advice by all of you. I'm definitely glad I asked the question here! I do like the challenge, very much so, but I've spent 3 or 4 weekends on this car and mine are not getting done. I work full time so can't do much more than research and order parts during the week. I will definitely let everyone know the outcome. I troubleshoot aviation fuel systems all day and know how important it is to hear "the rest of the story".



If the only real Issue this car has (and it sounds nice) is the "Carb Problem" its well worth considering the New Carb Option after You try the Suggestions. Carbs have come a long way since that AFB was new. You have already replaced the Points with Pertronix which to Me is another Step Up. I have Pertonix for last 10+ Years and never had an Issue. Let us know what Happens.

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Roy
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Lord Gaga. I'm on Summit a lot and never knew they have their own carb! That's cool. I looked at the rebuild kit and there wasn't much to it, so that seems good. Thanks for the head's up, and I am so ready to throw that AFB out, but maybe this weekend will make it work again. I just keep thinking this car ran good not long ago, but maybe the guy that put the carb and dizzy on made some adjustments to overcome some issues and I just don't know what he did. It's a real nice car that hasn't seen any rust or major body work, but the engine compartment was sprayed with rattle cans to dress it up, so I'm guessing the last owner got it running and looking good and sold it. 

Thanks for letting me know about the Summit carb. They are awesome to do business with.



Life isn't about arriving at the end in a pristine, well preserved body; It's about sliding in sideways, all clapped out, yelling "What a ride!"

Roy
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Thanks oldcarmark. I actually talked to the owner about picking up another carb, so that may be the way we go. This weekend I'm going to try everything that's been recommended here by everyone. There has been some very good advice by all of you. I'm definitely glad I asked the question here! I do like the challenge, very much so, but I've spent 3 or 4 weekends on this car and mine are not getting done. I work full time so can't do much more than research and order parts during the week. I will definitely let everyone know the outcome. I troubleshoot aviation fuel systems all day and know how important it is to hear "the rest of the story".




Life isn't about arriving at the end in a pristine, well preserved body; It's about sliding in sideways, all clapped out, yelling "What a ride!"

Lord Gaga
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Roy (7/13/2019)
Needing some help with a friend's 56 Vicky. It backfires through the carb on acceleration like it's running lean, but the plugs are dry black indicating rich. I rebuilt the carb which is apparently from a 57. I also installed a Pertronix and found the dizzy is also a 57 type as the Pertronix is different for a 56 dizzy. The car ran good before Winter and when he took it out of storage it ran like crap. While working on it, it ran out of gas so the gas in it is new. To be safe I installed a new filter. I also installed a new distributer cap, rotor and plugs. I'll install wires tomorrow as these are 17 years old and feel a little brittle, not cracked, but getting there. I really don't think it's ignition and definitely seems like the carb, unless maybe a timing chain? I've never had a timing chain go bad. I've built a bunch of engines and always put in new Timing chains or gears so don't know what symptoms a bad one has. 
Here's what I have so far:
Engine: 292. He bought the car 17 years ago and knows nothing about whether it was ever rebuilt. He just cruises and is not hard on it.
Trans: FOM
Carb is Carter 4bbl AFB
Fuel pump puts out 3.5 psi while cranking it over.
Engine vacuum was around 8" but after new intake gaskets its now about 15. (Still low)
Vacuum advance works easily with a Mity Vac.
Compression test ranged from 85 to 115 with most around 100-105. This isn't real good I know.
Initial timing is 7* advanced at idle w/ vac advance disconnected and plugged at carb.
Starts easily and once you get past the carb coughing it revs well. Driving it is another story. Coughs a lot getting to speed.
Mixture screws were having zero effect and could be screwed in all the way (gently) and the engine still runs just the same. To me this would indicate running rich or flooding over. I've been working to get the idle as low as possible so as not to be running it in the transition stage. After adding the Pertronix and replacing the intake gaskets I can get some change using the mixture screws, but not what it should be at all. If I screw them in all the way it will kill the engine now, but it dies slowly not like you'd normally get screwing them in where it usually kills it fast.
I've rebuilt and been through the carb at least 3 times. I've sprayed carb cleaner through every hole, jet or opening and watched for it coming out the other end. Then followed that with compressed air. I've rebuilt a lot of older Holleys and do have a clue about carbs and this AFB, though different, really isn't a hard rebuild. To be safe I followed step by step using a Carter book by Dave Emanuel. I've also used other info like the Ford manual and whatever else I could find. I set the floats at 5/32" like the Ford manual and carb kit instructions say, but everywhere else people say set them at 7/16". That may be generic for Edelbrock carbs as they are almost the same. That is a lot of difference though for a float setting. I figured the Ford setting should be right for this particular carb.
I'm sorry this is so long, but I figured if someone was to take the time to consider what's going on, the more info the better.
Thanks in advance! Roy


Don't waste anymore time and money on that AFB...get a Summit Racing 500 or 600 CFM carb. 
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-m08500vs


"FREE SAMPLE"


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