thanks ted

you gave me the answer i was looking for in the dizzy shaft i have half of that in up & down movement which in the case of my worn hex shaft  could in theory  when the dizzy shaft moves to its upper limit of movement the most worn part of the hex slips in the dizzy this being on the last 1/8" on the very end of the shaft i have also noticed in the 3 times it's happened that it is always on first start up early in the morning when the oil is at its coldest & heaviest.

one other thing i noticed was my shaft has 2 different ends one flat one conical  the marks from the spring/lock washer is at the conical end no marks to suggest it has been on the flat end yet the conical end was in the dizzy its possible the engine was assembled this way ive removed the shaft twice & put it back the same position it came out this time ive turned it over so the flat end is in the dizzy shaft & i seem to have slightly more shaft in the dizzy.

moz. geelong victoria australia.

graduate 1980, bus, truck, car, hot rod, boat, submarine, hovercraft, hydrafoil, firetruck, mobile home, jet, helicopter, cruise ship, motorcycle, bicycle, santa's sleigh, clock, alloy bullbar, alloy fuel tank, lens, dr who's tardis, matter - anti matter warp drive buffer & y-block lover

Moz.  There’s no imagining to this as checking oil pump shaft free play is a prerequisite while prepping for engine assembly.  I prefer a minimum of 0.075” freeplay and really don’t have a maximum value as long as there is what would be deemed adquate penetration at both ends of the shaft.  The key here is for some endplay to be present and not having a shaft that is sandwiched tightly or with zero freeplay between the oil pump and distributor which promotes both premature oil pump and distributor gear wear.  A ¼” of penetration at the distributor end on a Y should be adequate but this has to be with a given amount of freeplay being present.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

ted

how much free play would you imagine the shaft having between the oilpump & dizzy in looking in the hex in  my dizzy shaft the wear pattern  in the hex indicated less than 1/4" of shaft in the dizzy.

moz. geelong victoria australia.

graduate 1980, bus, truck, car, hot rod, boat, submarine, hovercraft, hydrafoil, firetruck, mobile home, jet, helicopter, cruise ship, motorcycle, bicycle, santa's sleigh, clock, alloy bullbar, alloy fuel tank, lens, dr who's tardis, matter - anti matter warp drive buffer & y-block lover

The ¼” hexagon aftermarket oil drive shafts are indeed more prone to breakage at the ends but that’s to be expected with the design where it steps down at the ends whereas the stock ¼” shafts are known for their ability to twist like a pretzel before snapping.  But the shafts never break because of a defective or weakened shaft but generally because of the oil pump locking up.  As a rule, the aftermarket shafts are strong enough that snapping the roll pin in the distributor gear can take place before a shaft failure which is a good safety fuse versus a shaft that simply twists until it breaks and the engine keeps running.

The original thought process on the heavier shafts was to reduce the harmonics being transmitted to the distributor thereby reducing spark scatter at the higher rpms.  This was very important with point distributors and although not as big a player with the more modern electronic distributors, is still worth considering in this regard.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

Ted,



I located and reread the excerpt on pump shafts from "Engine Builder's Handbook", by Tom Monroe. I had remembered incorrectly, as it was NOT cam gear wear that he was concerned with, but shaft breakage due to increased shock loading of the ends (which are still the same size, though the shaft itself is larger and less flexible).

Glad to hear your experience with heavier, after-market shafts has been positive. I will thus feel more secure in using the one I have for my grocery-getter rebuild. His theory does seem to make sense, but may only apply to Hi-Po race motors running very heavy oil and tight, high volume pumps?

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA

john

great minds think alike first thing i checked last night was the dizzy  hex its fine the ends of the shaft have some wear so im getting a new one i have some more info first time i pulled the dizzy & put it back in it didnt work i re-pulled the dizzy pulled out the shaft checked both put them back in started her up & had oil pressure the spring washer/clip on the shaft is shot & slides up & down the shaft so i came up with the theory it may be floating at revs or its got the wrong shaft hence the length question as ive discovered with my head question i have a 57 block, 56 heads & 55 dizzy talk about a bitsa engine.

moz. geelong victoria australia.

graduate 1980, bus, truck, car, hot rod, boat, submarine, hovercraft, hydrafoil, firetruck, mobile home, jet, helicopter, cruise ship, motorcycle, bicycle, santa's sleigh, clock, alloy bullbar, alloy fuel tank, lens, dr who's tardis, matter - anti matter warp drive buffer & y-block lover

Ted, the 56 fords with 312s we owned with very low milage had the gerotor pump. Not sure about the 292s though.

-Gary Burnette-

Best info I have indicates that the gerotor pumps were first introduced in 1957 on the 312’s and were slowly transitioned to the other Y engines after that.

First I’ve heard on this one and sounds like misinformation without more information to go on.  Have been using the aftermarket shafts for years in almost all families of engines with zero issues.  If cavitation issues are present, then oil shaft wear at the ends will be more pronounced but that would likely more of an issue with a stock shaft rather than the aftermarket units.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

Moz,



Oops! Checked shaft length again (this time with glasses ON). It's actually 8 1/16th"!





Dennis;



My parts book (which only goes up to 1959) describes the oil pump listed for '55-up Y-blocks (COAE 6600-D) as "rotor type" (?). I know my '55 came from the factory with a gear-type pump, so when did they start shipping Y-blocks with rotor pumps? Were they used for service replacement initially, or was this a typo in the parts manual? When/why did they start with the 8" shaft? Aren't all the hi-po after-market shafts 8 1/16th"?



P.S. I read somewhere that stronger/performance shafts may NOT be such a good idea. While they are less likely to break, their lower flexibility may wear out/damage the cam gear (?).

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA

Moz:

Is it possible that the hex in the bottom of the distributor is stripped out?  Seems odd that a shaft even 1/16" shorter than it's supposed to be would fail.  I don't think 1/16" more engagement would be enough to drive the oil pump reliably anyway.

John

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"