Profile Picture

Engine recommendations

Posted By paul2748 9 Years Ago
You don't have permission to rate!
Author
Message
Ted
Posted 9 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Co-Administrator

Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.1K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 2 hours ago
Posts: 7.4K, Visits: 205.0K
Ditto on Charlies’ comments.  The Teapot Holley is sensitive to engine vacuum changes which makes cam selection touchy for those carbs without having to do extensive air bleed modifications.  The Isky E4 camshaft ground on 112° lobe centers instead of 108° is one way to get an increase in performance over using the ’57 FoMoCo grind while still having an idle that’s slow enough for the tighter Ford-O-Matic torque converters.  You could consider this camshaft as being the next step above a 1957 Ford grind.
 
As a general rule, as the lobe centers are reduced, there is a decrease in manifold vacuum due to the increase in camshaft overlap.  Overlap is where both the intake and exhaust valves on a cylinder are open at the same time.  Simply increasing the lobe center degrees restores this loss in manifold vacuum but it does cause the intake valve to close later.  That in turn reduces the cranking compression but this can be compensated for by simply raising the static compression ratio slightly by decking the block and/or milling the heads.  If using composition head gaskets instead of the factory steel shim gaskets, then at least 0.025” needs to be removed from the decks and/or heads just to restore the original compression ratio.  Some careful measurements during the engine build process may indicate the need to actually mill some of the components even more in which to optimize the engine combination as the compression ratio may have been lower than advertised to begin with.  If a camshaft is being installed with a later intake valve closing event, then an increase in the static compression ratio restores any lost low end torque.
 
Another option for the camshaft is a custom grind that Ed Iskenderian had a hand in designing and this one is specific to using the Teapot carb in conjunction with the LOM distributor and a FordOMatic tranny.  This camshaft came about as a result of the 1957 Ford grind not being ideally suited to use with a LOM distributor but is a nice upgrade to the original 1955/56 ECK grind.  This cam grind would also work well with a conventional distributor and a modified Teapot but finds itself being a fit between the ECK and 1957 camshafts.  The specs on that camshaft are as follows:
Adv dur: 237°I, 236½°E
Dur at 0.050”: 206½°I, 206°E
Lobe lift: 0.280”I, 0.281”E
Lobe/centerline: 114°
Isky grind number: 301-S-969

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


miker
Posted 9 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)Supercharged (4.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 days ago
Posts: 1.8K, Visits: 190.6K
All Charlie's comments are right on. I went thru a cam selection process last year, trying to reduce the dynamic compression ratio due to a head change. Someone here sent me this article, which was useful.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/0607phr-camshaft-basics/

Beyond that, I've done 4 motors with John Mummert's cams. Give him a call,and tell him what you want. His recommendations are good, and conservative. He won't try to get you to overcam a motor.

miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ
charliemccraney
Posted 9 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 6.1K, Visits: 441.8K
Before you spend too much time on the 312, be sure to check for cracks in the mains and a straight cam tunnel.  Problems with either of those and you're probably better off to find another block.

The G heads will give you more compression, which will help all around, power and efficiency ie mileage.  With the bigger valves and better ports, they also give you more potential for future upgrades, say maybe a B intake and headers.  Long term, the G heads are the better choice.   Short term, the C heads do save you some money.

Everything else equal, wider centers tend to have a slightly smoother idle, better vacuum and a flatter torque curve.  I think he did that to make it work ok with the stock converter as the E-4 is on the edge of what you can get away with.

If you put the groove in the block, then you simply use standard bearings, grooved or cross drilled versions.  I'm pretty sure Ted makes it about 1/16" deep.  Not sure about the width but he also installs restrictors just before the rocker shafts to prevent too much oil from bypassing the cam bearing.

A shop manual should have specs for the pump.  All you really need is a straight edge and a good set of feeler gauges to check clearances.  If they are good, re-assemble.
I don't know of any rebuild kit for the iron spur gear pumps but they are available complete, new from Melling.
Conversely, there are rebuild kits for the gerotor pumps but I don't know of any of those which are available new as complete assemblies.  Melling also make this rebuild kit.





Lawrenceville, GA
paul2748
Posted 9 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)Supercharged (6.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 3.6K, Visits: 497.5K
I'm building a new engine for my 56 Bird.  It's a 312, will probably need a small overbore (030??).  The car it's going in has a C4 auto, stock rear (3.3X), Holley 4000 converted for a later distributor, 57 TBird distributor with Pertronix II, "C": heads.  Otherwise pretty much stock.  I do a lot of local driving plus some long distance trips of over 1,000 miles.  I know an OD will give better mileage, but that is not in the cards.

I do have the option of "G" heads, but will need a complete valve job where the "C" head won't.  I know the "G" heads are better, but also looking at the expense of the "G"  heads being redone.

Biggest question is camshaft.   Don't want a rump-rump cam, something with a good idle and low end characteristics and reasonable gas mileage.
Ted Eaton, in one of the later YBlock magazines, rebuilt a 292 with an E-4 ground on 112 lobe centers rather than the standard 108.  Any indication why? - not reason was given in the article, only that it works better with an automatic and the 4000.  Better fuel economy, more low end torque?.

Regarding putting the groove in the block for better oiling - what cam bearing is used when this is done.  Any other modifications required when this is done?  What are the dimensions for the groove?

Another question concerns an oil pump - I have what I think is a good pump that I took off when I  restored the car but would like to have it rebuilt for the new engine.  Is it practical to do this and who is a good source to do it?  I guess I could use the pump currently on the engine but other that the top of the engine I don't want to swap anymore parts. The pump worked fine when on the old engine and I only changed it because I had the engine out and didn't know the history of the engine and components.

Thanks for any suggestions and recommendations.


54 Victoria 312;  48 Ford Conv 302, 56 Bird 312
Forever Ford
Midland Park, NJ



Reading This Topic


Site Meter