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How much power are you making with what setup???

Posted By babor 10 Years Ago
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mctim64 (1/31/2015)

I'm sure Rob is a good head guy but be carful with the "bigger is better" mentality, Sometimes it's not how much but where and how you cut.  There are guys here that have been working with Y heads for decades and know what to do, if your guy is an SBC expert he may or may not do a good job.  I think a lot of scruby guys curse Ys because they can't get the end results they want for doing it the scruby way. Just be careful is all I'm saying. BTW all my race engines have done best with the 113 castings (aluminum heads not included) so you are headed in the right direction.


Welcome aboard, babor.  I'm glad that my fellow Forum members have been able to influence your thinking regarding the FoMoCo y-block.  I see y-blocks as underrated 'sleepers'.  Some here will be able to help you more than others because of your intended degree of modification, vehicle application, and intended use.  Everything I build is for the street and highway.

Comments: 
1)  Tim McMaster has attempted to carefully alert you to one of the idiosyncrasies of y-blocks.  Porting y-block cylinder heads inappropriately can yield negative results.  Of the various original FoMoCo heads made between '54 and '64, your 113 heads are EXCELLENT to be starting with for performance upgrading efforts.  Like Tim suggested, applying usual porting methodology to y-block heads can yield negative results.  I don't question your porter's expertise, but consider having him do some homework before just 'doing what he usually does' to other cylinder heads to your Ford 113 heads.
2)  A bonus of the engine block you have.  According to information provided by John Mummert, beginning in (?) April of 1959, FoMoCo increased the dept of the threaded holes in the main bearing cap webbing.  This production modification is speculated to have been the result of a frequency of cracks in the webbing of earlier blocks that were finding themselves being rebuilt by Ford or Ford authorized re-manufacturers.  Engine blocks with the casting numbers B9AE-6015 F were the first of the different production models through production year 1964 to benefit from this move to slightly longer main cap bolts for 292 EBU main caps and 312 ECZ main caps.
_________________
Some of us rebuilding earlier production series of y-blocks subscribe to drilling and tapping our blocks to this later FoMoCo adopted thread depth for our main bearing caps.  All 292 engine main bearing caps take a different length bolt than the 312 engine main bearing caps.  John Mummert offers ARP bolts and studs for retrofitting your block with replacement hardware for your ~55 year old block.
3.  5752-113 cylinder heads are 'posted'.  These have been reported to have been milled as much as .045 without trouble when rebuilding or modifying.  IF you reference the following article on Ted Eaton's web site, it may help you in determining how much you want to mill your 113 heads to accomplish the combustion chamber cc volume you desire.as you plan your build. 
See    http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2013/01/30/cylinder-head-milling-for-a-1cc-reduction/
4.  The brand of cylinder head gaskets that you select for use on y-blocks can also affect the effective combustion chamber volume you're working with in calculating your static compression ratio.  The following article on Ted Eaton's web site may help you in knowing how much various manufacturers' available head gaskets add to the effective volume of your cylinder heads combustion chamber's cc volume.
See    http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2012/06/30/head-gasket-volume-calculation/

Best wishes going forward.  I hope this helps you to begin digging into what makes this engine well worth your time and effort.  I believe that you'll find it a very rewarding build.       


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babor
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Thanks Tim! My cylinder head guy is The real thing. He works on anything. Look Rob Stidem up on youtube and you'll see some of his handiwork.
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Cool! They are already the big valve heads! I'll just have him do the ports and set the springs up for the cam. Scored a Model-B pickup today!!
mctim64
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Ha Ha! I just noticed if you type shivey (with a ch) the site automatically changes it to scrub. Nice work Jim. ;-)

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/b1f2e0d6-2566-46b3-b81d-3ff3.jpg   God Bless. Smile  Tim                           http://yblockguy.com/

350ci Y-Block FED "Elwood", 301ci Y-Block Unibody LSR "Jake", 312ci Y-Block '58 F-100, 338ci Y-Block powered Model A Tudor

tim@yblockguy.com  Visalia, California    Just west of the Sequoias


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I may be a little late to the party but I just wanted to add that when I arrived at Bonneville in 2012 with my latest engine for the Uni and talked to a guy with a C-10 in my class running a 305 with a claimed 490hp on the dyno from a "professional sprint car engine builder" I thought this was going to be hard to beat. End result was my garage built Y-Block has ran 5 mph faster in top speed and the scruby got slower the next year. Still waiting to see what happens with the "new" Mummert heads. (ran loaner Mummert heads in 2013, CNC ported, the "new" ones are Joe Crane ported)
On the 1/8 and 1/4 mile tracks I run an engine put together with parts all sourced from ebay and swap meets, I may have $1500 and a lot of my own hours in it. This car weighs 1400 lbs, runs a vintage 3x2 intake with old rebuilt 94s and manages low 10s @ 130 mph.
I'm sure Rob is a good head guy but be carful with the "bigger is better" mentality, Sometimes it's not how much but where and how you cut.  There are guys here that have been working with Y heads for decades and know what to do, if your guy is an SBC expert he may or may not do a good job.  I think a lot of scruby guys curse Ys because they can't get the end results they want for doing it the scruby way. Just be careful is all I'm saying. BTW all my race engines have done best with the 113 castings (aluminum heads not included) so you are headed in the right direction.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/b1f2e0d6-2566-46b3-b81d-3ff3.jpg   God Bless. Smile  Tim                           http://yblockguy.com/

350ci Y-Block FED "Elwood", 301ci Y-Block Unibody LSR "Jake", 312ci Y-Block '58 F-100, 338ci Y-Block powered Model A Tudor

tim@yblockguy.com  Visalia, California    Just west of the Sequoias


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Assuming a pretty basic overbored 292, you'll need to 0 the deck (mill the block) and remove about 11ccs from the heads, more depending on the heads you use, to get to 10:1 with flat tops.  It will require heavy milling, which means the intake will need to be milled as well.  Usually machine work for anything more than a cleanup cut costs more.  Machining for the intake will cost more. That extra money spent on milling may be better spent on domed pistons so that you can ensure the integrity of the head by leaving the deck thicker.

The cam should be good for a race car but a bit much for the average person in a street vehicle, per your most recent post - everyone is different, though and you may enjoy it.



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The 505-T is a tried and true combo that is used by several of our faster guys..  .I have found that going too big on the intake valve actually hurts the heads by making a too big and lazy port.. Mummert uses a 1.94 valve to get up in the 600 range with his heads... To get the low end torque you need to light them up, a port with a lot of velocity works really well.
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Thank you Ted! My cylinder head guy will do extensive work to the heads. His mentality is "If we're already in there cutting on them, let's put the biggest valves we can fit into them and port from there!" Rob's exact words. We will mill them to get around 10:1 compression and I was going to run an Isky race cam. Probably around a 5.14:1 gear with the direct drive trans or likely a 4.56:1 with a gearbox. Still deciding what the vehicle will be, which will make the decision on which transmission to run. Likely to be either a manual grinder or the in and out box. Whadd'ya think??
 
ISKYPart
Number

Application
RPM Range
Description/Special requirementsValve Lash Hot(INT/EXH)AdvertisedDuration(INT/EXH)Durationat .050"(INT/EXH)Valve liftw/ 1.5:1 rocker ratio(INT/EXH)Lobe center
301505
505-T SOLIDMechanical

1955-62 Ford 272ci-292ci-312ci Y-block V-8 engines
3500-7000
Bracket racing. Rough idle. 2800 stall. 4.11-4.56 axle ratio. 650-750 CFM Carb. 10:1 compr..028"/.028"290°/290°254°/254°  .505"/.505"  
108°
 
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Babor.  The amount of power being made will relate directly back to any port work done to the heads and the compression ratio.  As a general rule of thumb, 1HP per cubic inch is a good target for G or 113 iron heads assuming not much work is being done on them.  And this is with the compression ratio being at a level that's still suitable for pump gasoline.  With port work, increased camming, and getting the compression ratio up by milling the decks and heads, then 1.25-1.3 HP per cubic inch is easier to achieve.  As has already been brought up, the Y engines are noted for their torque and a couple of reasons for that would include the stacked intake ports and the intake manifold design where the plenum floor is at the same height under both sides of the carburetor.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


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That's an impressive dead punch for a heavy car!! This baby with some headwork and a big cam in a light vehicle should haul!


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