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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Pondering over the possibilities of this project I am about to undergo, something came to mind. How much power is average with what modifications and what heads, etc...??? Carbs, cams, transmissions, gear ratios, times in the 1/8-1/4 mile? This should be an interesting thread!
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By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago
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There are likely a hundred variables in play here. And then there's what I'll call the "fisherman's" estimates of how much horsepower "my" engine makes..Good luck with getting anything really useful to your question..
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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Like Paul says, I can only speculate but I can speculate based on facts. My engine is pretty much an tweaked E-code but with only one carb. The heads are the same, but ported. Machine work to the heads and block, and custom pistons increase the compression. I have a few more ci and a lighter rotating assembly. The cam is a repro of the '57 Blower cam which if I understand correctly was also used in the 285hp version of the E code. While the intake is a single four, it should be more capable than the two four intake with the right carb on it. I'm currently running a Holley 570 Street Avenger. The exhaust should be better, based off of Ted's testing. It has Harland Sharp Rockers, 1.6:1 rather than 1.54:1 factory ratio.
If the E-codes were an honest 270 and 285hp, then I think 300 is not an unreasonable estimate for mine in proper tune. I don't think I quite have it there, yet, though and even if I do, the chassis and gearing is not yet set up to be able to use it to it's full potential.
My best 1/8 is 9.870 / 72.88 mph. 1/4 15.263 / 91.08 mph. I'm aiming for a 14 second time slip this year.
Transmission is a Ford Racing T5-Z, 3.70 open 9" rear, 275/60-15 tires (28" tall), Cal-Trac traction bars, 3675lbs with me in it.
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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I have done a fair amount of testing on different combinations of a 292 and a 333. I took a pretty much stock 58 292 added a B intake and very mild cam and made 225 horse with cast exhaust manifolds. Adding headers and a blue thunder intake bumped it up to 245 horse. I then put on a set of ported G heads stout cam Blue Thunder intake, and after quite a bit of tuning made 325 horse. In my view it is a pretty difficult task to make 1hp/cu without some head work..My best effort on the 333 with ported iron heads, Headers, lots of compression and cam,.plus Hilborn injection made 462 horse. A 280 horse 312 would take a real good tuner. I suspect Ford pulled out all the stops to achieve that number with stock components. Ted has built so may different combinations and had so much dyno testing that he could look at your components and tell you what it would make within less than 10% error
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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Weren't you able to crack 300hp before adding ported heads? I remember someone posting about that and it required a pretty radical cam. Can't find the post now, though.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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I have one of the best cylinder head guys in the country here. He is an old friend of mine. He seems to think that we can wake the old girl up pretty well. I have 5752/113 heads. If I can make enough power to wind it up, hit the in and out box and lite the tires up for a while I am good. It's just going to be a crowd pleaser at the track here and there and noise maker at car shows.
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By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago
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We need to keep in mind that prior to about 1972, Detroit was using gross brake horsepower figures, not net BHP figures. In other words the figures they were publishing were neglecting the drag created by generators, street exhaust systems, water pumps etc. Further it has been said that the marketing people often tended to inflate those figures for sales reasons. As an example; Even one of the major Hot Rodding magazines, possibly Hot Rod?..when they tested the supposedly one horse per cu.in Fuely, Duntov cammed 10.5 to 1 compression 1957 scrub engine, couldn't get one horse per cubic in out of it. Close but even with extensive tuning, it was about 12 horses short.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Paul brings up a good point. Having dyno tested a majority of different stock rebuilt engines from the different manufacturers, most of these come short of the advertised HP ratings. The factory high performance engines on the other hand are typically in the ballpark of the factory ratings and sometimes even exceed those ratings when the tuneup is on the money. On the flip side of this, just performing simple modifications as improved carburetion, intakes, head porting, camming, and headers makes for significant gains over the factory combinations.
As far as Y Block engine combinations go, the Y-Block Magazine has years of dyno testing on the various Y combinations. Some of the Y combinations I’ve done can be found on my own website. Here’s the link to the index of articles which can get you started.
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/06/25/quick-index-for-eaton-balancing-articles/
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By 62galxe - 9 Years Ago
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60 over, G heads, small cam, B intake, 1.43 rockers, numerous carbs tested, made right at 250. B intake has the bores opened up.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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The other thing worth mentioning is who's dyno it is, and how they "correct" it. My 320cid, 9:1, 4lb boost motor made 400 "uncorrected" hp on a Mustang chassis dyno, and 211hp "corrected". That's a big difference. My OT car made 424 on an engine dyno, and 320 on the chasis dyno. Seems like a lot of loss for the water pump, PS, exhaust, A/T, etc. Looking at Ted's numbers, all under his control, seems to give good relative results. Beyond that, I'm not so sure how they compare. We use the chassis dyno to get a good fuel curve, and ignition curve, without detonation. But even then, driving the car seems to lead to some changes for drivability that are hard to duplicate on the dyno.
I don't race the cars, so making a couple of peak numbers based on gearing, shift points, and traction, isn't the whole story.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Considering that I can make 500hp EASILY with an SBC, this baby is going bye bye....lol! I am not quite that nostalgic. Seems to me as these are boat anchors...
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By Cliff - 9 Years Ago
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I think this guy is from the dark side
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By Doug T - 9 Years Ago
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Easy come easy go!
Considering that the engine was for sale last night this is not exactly a surprise. I just hope he finds a nice scrub garage queen to put his 500 hp scrub in.
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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babor (1/21/2015)
Considering that I can make 500hp EASILY with an SBC, this baby is going bye bye....lol! I am not quite that nostalgic. Seems to me as these are boat anchors...
Babor, you are not nostalgic and also not very interesting also! Sure ANYONE can make 500 HP out of an engine that has had all the engineering done for them through the aftermarket industry!!! It is just like building a cookie cutter camaro, WHO CARES! If you have seen one, you have seen them all!
In my opinion, I have more respect for a true Craftsman that can build something with his OWN brain and talents! People Like John Mummert, Ted Eaton, Jerry Christianson, etc., etc.! They have built 500 HP Y-Blocks, by simply using their own brains and talent! NO ONE helped them, they figured it out by themselves using 50 + year technology, not auto cad designed, computer tested parts by big budget companies!
Now this is not just scrub bashing! Friends of mine are GM fans and have built high HP 292 stove bolt six engines and 350 Olds Rocket motors. Now those I have respect for, for they are not just the BOARING old small block scrub that you can find in any grandmother's car! So go ahead and build a 500 HP sbc and I can guarantee you that NO ONE will even glance under your hood at a car show or cruise night!!!!
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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I'm assuming easily is synonymous with cost-effectively in this context. If that is an incorrect assumption, then it really is pretty easy to get 500hp out of a Y-block. I give Ted or John or Tim money and a 500hp Y arrives at my door. Pretty easy.
Once you get to a certain power level, there just isn't anything cheap about it and the cost/hp levels out, SBC or not, if you want it to be reliable. If the goal was a budget FED, then 500hp anything is not in the equation.
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By brokengate - 9 Years Ago
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Engines, oh boy, my buddy built a 348 scruby for his 58 and experienced the same higher cost as the Ys, but when it's right what can you do.
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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Well, here is an engine I put together a few years ago.. Mostly stock parts. Good head work a cam and injectors. Usual hi perf stuff added same as any brand engine pistons rods bearing valves springs etc..
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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I just wanna go fast cheap and reliable. No fancy aftermarket parts, just a set of ported Vortec heads, balance job and a big cam. If it costs 4000 to make the power with a 312 and 2000 with a scrub....I'll take the scrub. I am not on anybodies payroll! This post was pretty boring right up until I changed brands. Funny how nobody gets off their assets and posts unless it's negative. I thought this was a different forum, but obviously I was mistaking.
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By brokengate - 9 Years Ago
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Have your mamma cuddle you ingrate, I think you are done here.
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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I don't see how you come up with $4000 for the level of performance you said you desire. For your goal, which you said is "not concerned as much with the speed of it as much as just having fun with it" and "This thing will likely see more car shows and make noise than it will see of track duty in all reality," $2500-$3000 should be more realistic. That's pretty much a stock '57 spec engine with a bigger cam, no fancy parts required. A scruby will be cheaper for that same performance, no doubt about that but you will have more fun beating them with a "boat anchor."
While I don't have any numbers for my engine, it should definitely be at least as powerful as a '57 engine since that is effectively what it is. With a best of 15.26 so far, and I'm positive I'll have it in the 14s with more tuning, and better chassis setup, in a 3675lb truck, that same engine in your proposed 1500lb dragster seems like it would be quick enough for the goals you have stated without anything fancy at all.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Thank you Charlie. This is the first positive response to my reply. I am worried that without enough power that a F.E.D. with no suspension it may not break the tires loose enough to go straight. I like the 312, but if it won't suit my needs I will not use it. It's that simple. I may just build a street car. I am not a Molar, Scrub, or fuktoverrebuiltdodge guy. As I have stated, "None of them sign my checks". That is just like the Harley mentality that drove me away from them. I build whatever the hell I want....PERIOD! The SBC was in production since 1949 for research and 1954 for vehicles if memory serves. That in my opinion is far more nostalgic than a short run engine. These seem to be an underdog. I do not have a problem with that, but I am not a dead set Y-block guy. My engine doesn't need anything but a cam, timing chain and gaskets to run. I have one of the best cylinder head guys in the country to work on my heads. It all boils down to what is going to work for me. If this thing is going to only make 275hp, screw it, it isn't worth it. Where in the he'll were all these people when I was asking for advice regarding numbers achieved with minor mods???? bunch of asshats!
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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For the record, I have also built Ford 2.3 SOHC engines. I can get 250-300hp from one of those! Either somebody has some screwy numbers or these engines just don't make any power.....just saying.
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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The Y can make however much power you want for your project. A year ago or so, a guy put twin turbos on one and produced about 800hp at the wheels. Not crank, wheels. There is a thread about that. If the numbers aren't impressive enough, keep in mind, stock block as that is all there is... try that with a stock small block. It survived several dyno pulls, totalling the truck and last we heard installed into an F150, used as a tow rig. There are a few in excess of 500hp, mostly in race form, fewer in street form, and many in the 300-500hp area.
It will make in excess of 275hp, if that's what you want. Since you have a good head guy and you can get that work in exchange for a transmission rebuild, I don't really see a reason why you couldn't get it over 300hp pretty cost effectively. Again, it's not going to be as cheap as a scruby.
I understand what you mean about the scruby. It has been around a long time but despite that, it's hard to make it look nostalgic. If that is a part of your goal, you need vintage speed equipment, a magneto, maybe some kind of mechanical injection or at least a vintage intake, you know something that a guy can say "I remember seeing that way back when." Those parts ain't cheap, With a Y, you can have a modern intake, carb, distributor, but the fact that it is a Y takes it back immediately because people can identify it as a vintage, nostalgic engine. So it kinda gives you a way to take advantage of modern technology while maintaining a vintage appeal by default. A scruby with vortech heads, center bolt valve covers, hei distributor, etc, just won't do it. Done right, it will move. I won't deny that but it will not be nostalgic by any stretch.
I know you will enjoy the Y if you give it a chance but you're right, it's going to cost you more, initially, than an SBC.
I'm sorry it says scruby for this thread. The forum changes ch evy to scruby. It's an inside joke kind of thing. I'm not being disrespectful about that.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Thank you! As far as it being for sale, I'm just seeing if there are any buyers out there. So far only one bite and it fell through. Everything is for sale. It'll probably end up getting built.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Babor. It is a Y-Block site so any thoughts of using the Brand X engine will bring on some strong thoughts and/or responses. I can only imagine going to a SBC site and mentioning that you are entertaining putting a Ford engine in place of a GM engine. Same if not more harsh responses would be there.
Shipping costs for an engine is always a major player in selling them which makes it tough to get market value for them. I’d be interested myself if not for the shipping. Your engine has some desirable pieces so it is sellable.
A bit of correction though on your thoughts on the years of SBC production. It wasn’t until scrubrolet saw the Y-Block Ford in production that they seriously entertained the idea of a modern V8. At that point, the 239/256 Ford Y engines were used as the initial blueprints for the first generation of scrub engines and as a result, the similarities in the various angles and internal dimensions within both are unsurprisingly the same. That rush into production did bite scrubrolet in the rear as those 265’s were frought with oiling and ring seal problems. The warranty issues with those first scrub V8’s is well documented. By the time 1956 came around, scrubrolet had worked out a majority of the problems and as they say, the rest is history. I find it interesting today that finding a 1955 model 265 in anything but a museum piece is rare while there are still a majority of 1954 Ford 239’s and Merc 256’s still on the road.
While it’s acknowledged that some pretty big HP numbers can be made with the scrub engines, it does benefit from a solid 60+ years of engineering and hot rod development. I’ve made right at 860 HP with a normally aspirated scrub engine but rest assured there was not a single GM piece remaining within it.
While I could be running a big inch Ford in my own altered roadster, there is a given amount of satisfaction in taking an engine that has been totally ignored by the aftermarket industry and making some serious power with it. Too many times now it has been in final elimination rounds against the big inch engines that seem to dominate the faster classes. It’s been definitely good for business in the advertising sense. If it hadn't been for Jerry Christenson, I would have never entertained the idea of running a Y-Block in a race car.
While it still boils down to budget constraints when doing an engine project, there are those times you have spend just bit more to be outside the box or do some thing extraordinary.
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By pegleg - 9 Years Ago
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I might add, Ted can run high 8's with a carbureted no power adder Y Block.
My own, STOCK, '57 Ford will and has run 13.50 thru the mufflers on 6" street tires. Please show me a stock 283 in a full size sedan that will do that.
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By John Mummert - 9 Years Ago
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Its funny what things cost these days. I don't think there is such a thing as cheap engine these days, ( of any make) if you do a full rebuild, and have quality machine work, balancing , cam degree, trial assembly, etc. etc.
Yeah the parts cost a few bucks more for the vintage power parts , everything else, assembly, dynoing, machine work, all costs the same..
It became pretty clear to me years ago, if you go to the work to build a whole car its nice to have someone stop and appreciate it and not just turn there nose up and walk by because it has a SBC in it.
We would go the GOOD GUYS car show and you would aisles of 32 fords with all the same crap on them and the crowd would be standing around the 34 Dodge with a hemi in it or a 56 Ford gasser with an injected FE , the 32 ford with a Y block and 4 Strombergs. It wasn't because they were done nicer it was because the were different.
400hp with a Y block will cost more than an SBC but can be done super easy.
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By Bob Gardner - 9 Years Ago
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I just finished the cost trade for keeping the Y block versus converting to a sbf or sbc create engine. The cost numbers were pretty close when you added in the conversion costs to the truck to fit and make for the new engine. In the end with John Mummert's help selecting the right package of parts, I will wind up with a period correct engine with modern upgrades (aluminum heads and efi) in what should be a really nice '56 F 100 shop truck. As for the total cost number on the engine it should be in the same neighborhood as a complete 302 Ford create engine or a 383 small block with efi.
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By speedpro56 - 9 Years Ago
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When Ben Barnes dynode my 312 punched out to 345 cu ins. for the street, yes it's blue printed and balanced and made 430 hp and 400 ft. lbs. tq. He had just taken a 355 scrub race ready balanced engine off the dyno which made 385 hp and a lower ft. lbs. tq. number than the y-block. There was not that big a difference in price between the engine builds but the y was a little more. When the hood is raised on the 1956 Crown of which it resides the people just stop and keep talking and admiring the looks of the engine, it does have the WOW factor and they talk about how great they ran in their mom dads car back in the day.
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By Y block Billy - 9 Years Ago
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Babor, The basic design of the Y incorporates many of the copied features of race engines nowadays, LS are Y design, scrubrotets biggest baddest new crate motor was raving about their new shaft mounted rockers etc. etc. Things the Y had factory, all side oilers, solid lifter, things you do to motors when making them a race engine.
As for the scrub, yes you can make power with them but with no stock components as Ted Mentions. show me a 50's scrub that hasn't had 5 different crate motors installed over the years while most of the Fords still have their originals. My buddy had a scrub ramp truck and went through 7 motors in 5 years or so working it, I had an original ford with 300,000 miles and we both picked up cars at the same time, I had a trailer with the car loaded. we were only 30 miles or so from our point of destination, I ended up there about 20 minutes before him, that scrub would just not haul like an old worn out Ford.
I could go on and on but I will stop here!
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Funny how it has to turn into an argument to get any good answers. There is finally some good info here! This is what I was after when I started this thread. 350-400hp would be fine for what I'm after. I just need enough power to overcome the rear tires when that trans is shoved into gear at about 3500 and nail it to keep the tires lit up until about 200-300'.
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By Y block Billy - 9 Years Ago
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I don't think you have to worry about breaking the tires loose with a Y, they are a torquey engine and do that pretty easily. Matter of fact it's getting them to not spin that is the trick, most 1/8 mile tracks my car just spins the tires the full length of the track, last outing took off as easy as I could in first and brought it up to 5500 then hit second and it broke loose the remainder of the eight. Mine is a .060 over 292 with steel crank, Ross Pistons, .010" in the hole, G heads non ported but shaved .035 or .040" can't remember but I think I am around 9.5 on the compression, Mummert intake, Mummert (clay smith 272 cam) that is with a 9" posi it breaks loose not an open rear with top loader 4 speed ahead of it.
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By 2721955meteor - 9 Years Ago
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would like to visit your shop and will be in the area in approx 9 days. could you send your adress and if a visit is exceptable. regards cliff tate
at ct1940@shW.CA
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Billy, What happens if you launch her in 2nd? Lite 'em up??? If this happens it will be a low rear gear(5.50-6.00:1) with a 28-29" tire and a 1:1 transmission with no clutch or torque converter. This is a ridiculous idea to most people but I think it may work. The transmission was made for abuse and has a soft engagement valve. I just have to figure out some things like dragster or altered, front axle options, etc... I'll have significant headwork, larger valves and probably run a really high duration camshaft(310-320 degrees on a 108-110 lsa) and about 10:1 compression. May be leaning toward an altered the more I think about it for weight transfer reasons as well as the possibility of legalization...lol! If I find an old carcass with a title I could run antique tags and zoomies!!! I love ZOOMIES!!!!
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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 babor (1/25/2015)
Funny how it has to turn into an argument to get any good answers. There is finally some good info here! This is what I was after when I started this thread. 350-400hp would be fine for what I'm after. I just need enough power to overcome the rear tires when that trans is shoved into gear at about 3500 and nail it to keep the tires lit up until about 200-300'.
Maybe this will tell you if you can overcome the rear tires? This was with my worn out Y-Block and still had the old " Slush-O-Matic " in it!!! LOL
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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http://youtu.be/RdeX6BDjdXA
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By steinauge - 9 Years Ago
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I am not really a" brand man",i have a 78 Malibu with a modified 406 sbc in it and a glass T roadster with a 292 inline scrub 6 as well as my 55 ford with a 292.I like both the 6 and the Y better than the 400 just because I dont see them at every show and they are interesting to work on.All 3 are good,reliable engines and make more power than I can use..I reckon a Y forum is just not really the place to advocate SBCs.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Wasn't trying to advocate, just commenting. What rear gear ratio was in your car with the slush-O-matic burnout action???
What tire size??
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Is that a dead punch or a brake torque?
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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I don't know if a burnout with street tires translates to anything meaningful once slicks are used, though the water box is usually used with slicks which might bring it to about the same amount of friction.
The Y produces a strong low end for its cid in stock form and significant increases in horsepower do not necessarily mean similar increases in torque because rpm is a function of that equation. I suspect that any Y you build for the dragster will do the job. Back to the example using my truck, HP calculators put it at 222 based on mph and 205 based on et, so lets say 210. I enter 210hp with 1500lbs and it comes up with 11.22et. Let's call it 12. I haven't seen a 12 second anything that couldn't do a burn out. Build one at 300hp or more and I really don't think you will have a problem.
And I don't really know anything about dragsters. Maybe there are other dynamics involved, that more power is needed. Hopefully people who know will speak up.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Thanks for the input! I hope more people will speak up, that IS why I started this post after all... The weight difference and traction index is the thing. As long as it doesn't get too much traction I think it'll work. I am really leaning toward an altered(old school, late 50s-early 60s style) over a rail for a few reasons, mostly the fact that it could actually see street use. The direct drive box wouldn't be very street friendly I don't suppose, but what the hell right?...lol! The zoomies wouldn't be either!
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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If you want to do those crowd pleasing half track burnouts, you probably should not use a modern slick They are made to and do hook, esp on a light car. A really small tire that would spin, would look goofy on an altered so you need decent size rubber.. I think the Pie Crust repo slicks have a hard compound and should burn pretty good.. But at 500 a pop you hate to burn them up too quick
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By MoonShadow - 9 Years Ago
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I have a mildly built 40 over 292 that is running a McCulloch supercharger. The rear end is original 56 Ford with a posi and 3:80 gears. Now the bad part, with standard 15" radial's it will not spin the tires. I get a little chirp sometimes but it doesn't come on until about 40mph and then pulls hard. Everything is right to be making horsepower but I don't think it runs like it should. I have a 4:10 gear I'm going to try. Chuck
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Cool projects! Great input! Thank you... The repop slicks may be an option. May just find a pair of slicks that the shelflife has about run out on so the compound is hard, or boil off a pair of street tires...lol. Let's keep this baby rolling! Need more input!
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By Y block Billy - 9 Years Ago
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Chuck, it must have something to do with the way your car is lowered or you have to go on a diet. My 55 customline ant 58 truck both with 272's will bake the tires off with the loadOmatics and 3 bolt carbs.
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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steinauge (1/27/2015)
I am not really a" brand man",i have a 78 Malibu with a modified 406 sbc in it and a glass T roadster with a 292 inline scrub 6 as well as my 55 ford with a 292.I like both the 6 and the Y better than the 400 just because I dont see them at every show and they are interesting to work on.All 3 are good,reliable engines and make more power than I can use..I reckon a Y forum is just not really the place to advocate SBCs.
Dead punch, 3:55 Detroit locker and 265 /60/16's
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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That's an impressive dead punch for a heavy car!! This baby with some headwork and a big cam in a light vehicle should haul!
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Babor. The amount of power being made will relate directly back to any port work done to the heads and the compression ratio. As a general rule of thumb, 1HP per cubic inch is a good target for G or 113 iron heads assuming not much work is being done on them. And this is with the compression ratio being at a level that's still suitable for pump gasoline. With port work, increased camming, and getting the compression ratio up by milling the decks and heads, then 1.25-1.3 HP per cubic inch is easier to achieve. As has already been brought up, the Y engines are noted for their torque and a couple of reasons for that would include the stacked intake ports and the intake manifold design where the plenum floor is at the same height under both sides of the carburetor.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Thank you Ted! My cylinder head guy will do extensive work to the heads. His mentality is "If we're already in there cutting on them, let's put the biggest valves we can fit into them and port from there!" Rob's exact words. We will mill them to get around 10:1 compression and I was going to run an Isky race cam. Probably around a 5.14:1 gear with the direct drive trans or likely a 4.56:1 with a gearbox. Still deciding what the vehicle will be, which will make the decision on which transmission to run. Likely to be either a manual grinder or the in and out box. Whadd'ya think??| | ISKYPart
Number
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Application | RPM Range
| Description/Special requirements | Valve Lash Hot(INT/EXH) | AdvertisedDuration(INT/EXH) | Durationat .050"(INT/EXH) | Valve liftw/ 1.5:1 rocker ratio(INT/EXH) | Lobe center
| |
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301505
505-T SOLIDMechanical |
1955-62 Ford 272ci-292ci-312ci Y-block V-8 engines | 3500-7000
| Bracket racing. Rough idle. 2800 stall. 4.11-4.56 axle ratio. 650-750 CFM Carb. 10:1 compr. | .028"/.028" | 290°/290° | 254°/254° | .505"/.505" |
108°
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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The 505-T is a tried and true combo that is used by several of our faster guys.. .I have found that going too big on the intake valve actually hurts the heads by making a too big and lazy port.. Mummert uses a 1.94 valve to get up in the 600 range with his heads... To get the low end torque you need to light them up, a port with a lot of velocity works really well.
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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Assuming a pretty basic overbored 292, you'll need to 0 the deck (mill the block) and remove about 11ccs from the heads, more depending on the heads you use, to get to 10:1 with flat tops. It will require heavy milling, which means the intake will need to be milled as well. Usually machine work for anything more than a cleanup cut costs more. Machining for the intake will cost more. That extra money spent on milling may be better spent on domed pistons so that you can ensure the integrity of the head by leaving the deck thicker.
The cam should be good for a race car but a bit much for the average person in a street vehicle, per your most recent post - everyone is different, though and you may enjoy it.
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By mctim64 - 9 Years Ago
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I may be a little late to the party but I just wanted to add that when I arrived at Bonneville in 2012 with my latest engine for the Uni and talked to a guy with a C-10 in my class running a 305 with a claimed 490hp on the dyno from a "professional sprint car engine builder" I thought this was going to be hard to beat. End result was my garage built Y-Block has ran 5 mph faster in top speed and the scruby got slower the next year. Still waiting to see what happens with the "new" Mummert heads. (ran loaner Mummert heads in 2013, CNC ported, the "new" ones are Joe Crane ported)
On the 1/8 and 1/4 mile tracks I run an engine put together with parts all sourced from ebay and swap meets, I may have $1500 and a lot of my own hours in it. This car weighs 1400 lbs, runs a vintage 3x2 intake with old rebuilt 94s and manages low 10s @ 130 mph.
I'm sure Rob is a good head guy but be carful with the "bigger is better" mentality, Sometimes it's not how much but where and how you cut. There are guys here that have been working with Y heads for decades and know what to do, if your guy is an SBC expert he may or may not do a good job. I think a lot of scruby guys curse Ys because they can't get the end results they want for doing it the scruby way. Just be careful is all I'm saying. BTW all my race engines have done best with the 113 castings (aluminum heads not included) so you are headed in the right direction.
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By mctim64 - 9 Years Ago
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Ha Ha! I just noticed if you type shivey (with a ch) the site automatically changes it to scrub. Nice work Jim. ;-)
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Cool! They are already the big valve heads! I'll just have him do the ports and set the springs up for the cam. Scored a Model-B pickup today!!  
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Thanks Tim! My cylinder head guy is The real thing. He works on anything. Look Rob Stidem up on youtube and you'll see some of his handiwork.
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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mctim64 (1/31/2015)
I'm sure Rob is a good head guy but be carful with the "bigger is better" mentality, Sometimes it's not how much but where and how you cut. There are guys here that have been working with Y heads for decades and know what to do, if your guy is an SBC expert he may or may not do a good job. I think a lot of scruby guys curse Ys because they can't get the end results they want for doing it the scruby way. Just be careful is all I'm saying. BTW all my race engines have done best with the 113 castings (aluminum heads not included) so you are headed in the right direction.
Welcome aboard, babor. I'm glad that my fellow Forum members have been able to influence your thinking regarding the FoMoCo y-block. I see y-blocks as underrated 'sleepers'. Some here will be able to help you more than others because of your intended degree of modification, vehicle application, and intended use. Everything I build is for the street and highway.
Comments:
1) Tim McMaster has attempted to carefully alert you to one of the idiosyncrasies of y-blocks. Porting y-block cylinder heads inappropriately can yield negative results. Of the various original FoMoCo heads made between '54 and '64, your 113 heads are EXCELLENT to be starting with for performance upgrading efforts. Like Tim suggested, applying usual porting methodology to y-block heads can yield negative results. I don't question your porter's expertise, but consider having him do some homework before just 'doing what he usually does' to other cylinder heads to your Ford 113 heads.
2) A bonus of the engine block you have. According to information provided by John Mummert, beginning in (?) April of 1959, FoMoCo increased the dept of the threaded holes in the main bearing cap webbing. This production modification is speculated to have been the result of a frequency of cracks in the webbing of earlier blocks that were finding themselves being rebuilt by Ford or Ford authorized re-manufacturers. Engine blocks with the casting numbers B9AE-6015 F were the first of the different production models through production year 1964 to benefit from this move to slightly longer main cap bolts for 292 EBU main caps and 312 ECZ main caps.
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Some of us rebuilding earlier production series of y-blocks subscribe to drilling and tapping our blocks to this later FoMoCo adopted thread depth for our main bearing caps. All 292 engine main bearing caps take a different length bolt than the 312 engine main bearing caps. John Mummert offers ARP bolts and studs for retrofitting your block with replacement hardware for your ~55 year old block.
3. 5752-113 cylinder heads are 'posted'. These have been reported to have been milled as much as .045 without trouble when rebuilding or modifying. IF you reference the following article on Ted Eaton's web site, it may help you in determining how much you want to mill your 113 heads to accomplish the combustion chamber cc volume you desire.as you plan your build.
See http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2013/01/30/cylinder-head-milling-for-a-1cc-reduction/
4. The brand of cylinder head gaskets that you select for use on y-blocks can also affect the effective combustion chamber volume you're working with in calculating your static compression ratio. The following article on Ted Eaton's web site may help you in knowing how much various manufacturers' available head gaskets add to the effective volume of your cylinder heads combustion chamber's cc volume.
See http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2012/06/30/head-gasket-volume-calculation/
Best wishes going forward. I hope this helps you to begin digging into what makes this engine well worth your time and effort. I believe that you'll find it a very rewarding build.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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That is AWESOME news! Thank you for your response! I think I will likely just do some cleanup work after reading this and researching a little. Probably just have him do the basic bowl blend and de-burr the ports and finish with a medium grit polish for atomization as well as setting up a spring set for the camshaft. I really need to find another transmission now as this will be a street/strip rig with a little more weight than a rail. Any cost efficient ideas???
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By Y block Billy - 9 Years Ago
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Charlie, Babor, You can have the heads milled on the intake surfaces instead of having the intake milled, that way any intake will fit, can't remember the exact figure but I thinks its .64 or .54 of whatever the head surfaces are milled, maybe John or Ted knows this figure off the top of their heads.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Cool! Thanks Billy! I was wondering about that because we are likely going to mill the heads but haven't completely decided yet as it could later wind up with a blower or twin turdblows. More than likely N/A or Blown though as I think I am going to run ZOOMIES!
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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babor (2/1/2015)
Cool! Thanks Billy! I was wondering about that because we are likely going to mill the heads but haven't completely decided yet as it could later wind up with a blower or twin turdblows. More than likely N/A or Blown though as I think I am going to run ZOOMIES!
The first 0.030 that’s milled off of the heads will not require any milling to compensate for intake manifold fit assuming that composition head gaskets (recommended) are being used. After 0.030” of head or deck mill, then mill the intake side of the head 1.4 times whatever is taken off of the deck surface of the heads after 0.030”. For example, if the heads are being milled a total of 0.050”, then mill the intake side of the heads 0.028”. Any milling of the decks also counts into all of this.
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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I just milled a pair of G heads .030 They cc'd out at 63.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Before attempting to mill any Y cylinder head, be sure to measure the pads at the outer edge under the spark plugs. These are typically 1.000” as delivered from the factory and anything measured that’s less than this will be a good indication of the amount that those particular heads had being previously milled.
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By Y block Billy - 9 Years Ago
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Ted, 1.4 times .050" = .070"
.54 X .050" = .027 I thought it was somewhere around there.
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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We've been going at the static compression ratio thing, Babor. As you likely know, your engine's dynamic compression ratio really determines the maximum static compression ratio you can get away with for the fuel you plan to use.
One of the references that has been previously suggested here to use as you contemplate your build is the dynamic compression ratio calculator at http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php Dynamic compression ratio is a measurement of the swept volume of the cylinder and combustion chamber area when the actual compression of the air-fuel mixture commences when the intake valve closes after bottom dead center on the compression stroke compared to the volume of the area above the piston when it is at top dead center in the cylinder. NOTE: the volume above the piston in the cylinder when it is at top dead center includes: - the recess of the piston in the cylinder bore below the block deck - the cylinder head’s combustion chamber volume - the volume of the area bounded by cylinder head gasket thickness It has been amazing to me how WHEN the intake valve closes after BDC so significantly affects how high a static compression ratio my engine will tolerate. With the information I've previously gotten from Ted Eaton, for my purposes (street and highway) and with 91 octane pump gas, I look to stay at 8.0:1 dynamic compression maximum for reliability purposes (no detonation) due to the quality of gas in my area.
Regards,
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By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago
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YB Billy: re the intake side milling. I got confused on that one also. Re read his post. Ted said to apply the 1.4 ratio cut "after" 0.030, not on the total cut.. However, your method comes out about the same..
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By aussiebird - 9 Years Ago
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Hi all
l recently built a y block with mummerts advise and expertise these yblocks are pretty good and very high reving engines
forged pistons mummert suppled rods cam heads manifold 750cfm dp holley c4 conversion and a 9inch LSD and l have to say lm
impressed and they sound better than any other V8 out there 
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