Good morning gentlemen, found this site doing some tech research over on the HAMB and figured I'd join up.
I'm building a 27 ford roadster on a model A frame, 41 ford underpinnings, Y-block and a 5 speed (got a freeway with 80 mph speed limit as part of my daily commute).

Very early in my build right now.  I don't have my y-block yet, and honestly am just looking for a good core block to use for mockup in the short term.

My first Q for you guys, will any Y-block from an early 239 up to the later 292 be fine for mockup of mounts and trans position, or are there mounting differences between the years?

Looking forward to digging through all the knowledge here.



Looking for 292/312 block in Southern Utah. 90 min from Las Vegas.

Greetings from Kansas City. Your '27 on A-rails sounds like a fun project. In fact I'd like to do something similar when my Fairlane is upgraded to automobile status from paper weight.

Can't say specifically about block differences, but I believe truck engines should have the rear sump oil pan. Good luck and keep us informed. Dave.

Welcome to the site.  I saw your inquiry earlier today, but figured that others more sure about what you've asked would chime in.  Dave's gotten this started so let me try to help.

Dave's correct regarding the truck engines having a rear sump oil pan.  The '55, '56, and '57 T-Birds used a rear sump oil pan, also.  The truck oil pans (two different quart capacities, I'm aware of) are not shaped exactly like the 'Bird oil pan.  FoMoCo passenger cars (Fords, Mercs, Edsels) with y-blocks all had front sumps that I know of.

Trucks (all ?) used a different bellhousing than the passenger cars and Thunderbirds.  The truck bellhousing, as I understand it, has provision for connecting to the truck frame. 

Also, as I understand it, trucks (all?) have a mount that attaches to the front timing chain cover that also connects to the truck chassis for mounting purposes.  The '55, '56, and '57 Thunderbirds also used a mount that attaches to the front timing chain cover and connects to the vehicle chassis for mounting purposes.  My understanding is that the 'Bird front mounting bracket is shaped somewhat differently from the truck front mounting bracket.

My recollection is that both the '54 and '55 Ford passenger cars also used a front engine mount that attaches to the front timing chain cover.  I don't know about the '56 passenger car y-blocks.

All 1954-1964 FoMoCo y-blocks had two mounting points on the exterior of each side of the engine block (four total).  These are located adjacent and vertically parallel to the second cylinder from the front in each bank of the engine.
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Soooo...  you've got some options that may help in securing the y-block selected in your vehicle's frame.  Side engine mounts, the use of a truck front engine mount bracket (need the timing chain cover to go with it), the use of a truck bellhousing to provide a rear engine mount, the use of a passenger car front sump oil pan, or the use of a rear sump truck oil pan.

Personally, I would stay away from 239, 256, and 272 cubic inch engine blocks for one reason or another.  Some 292 engine blocks are internally (water jacket) the same as the 312s.  These should permit the overbore you need or desire in rebuilding.

As you may know, John Mummert's web site  at   http://www.ford-y-block.com/   contains a tremendous amount of helpful y-block engine information   Regarding engine blocks and their identification, you may wish to look at this web page of John's    http://www.ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm

Hope this helps you to get started.     


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

You don't want to use a 239, or possibly a 256 for mock up. I did that on my 32, and the dimensional differences on the water pump led to my having to redo the front mount. I think there are also some differences on the truck timing cover, like it's longer, which might be a concern on something as tight as a T/A frame. Hopefully, some one who's sure will chime in. PM me if you'd like some details or pictures.

Edit. Charlie posted while I was writing. I agree with all he listed.

miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ

Mike ; Yes it is, but the crank seal and the water pump are in the same location on both covers. The T'bird used the same casting as the late trucks.

Frank/Rebop

Bristol, In ( by Elkhart) 

Thanks, Frank.

miker
55 bird, 32 cabrio F code
Kent, WA
Tucson, AZ

Bambrose;

I put a Y-Block with a T-5 in a 37 Ford coupe. Not exactly the same chassis as the model A, but you will need to make some decisions, if you haven't already on front and rear suspension choices. As others have said I would try to find at least a 292 to build. I went with an IFS and parallel leaf rear suspension. The motor mounts will be tricky because of the Y-Blocks 45 degree mounting surface on the side with 2 vertical bolt holes. I used a modified tubular FE mount together with the rubber Y Block mount. The T-5 tranny mount will not be compatible, at all, with the Model A X-Member. I had to use a Speedway Motors Tubular tranny mount and basically cut out most of my X-Member. Needless to say you will have to completely box the frame. Hope this helps a little. Send me a PM if you want some pictures of the mock-up I did. Good Luck!
Rono

  Ron Lane,  Meridian, ID

Man I didn't expect such a thorough response.  You guys are great!

NoShortcuts, thank you for taking the time to write all of that information out.  Very helpful.

I will be using a complete X-member that I fabricate myself using a 41-48 ford member as a guideline as that is what I'm using for pedals.  This will allow me to to pick the T-5 mount location as necessary. 

Another question for you guys.  If I run just the side mounts (4 holes as described above), and then the trans mount on the X-member, is this sufficient or is a front or bell housing mount also necessary for proper support?  I guess my concern would be regarding the strength of the side mounts. Not building a monster  motor here, just focusing on a good streetable Y-block.

Frame will be boxed and body position/firewall is up to needs for the motor.  My frame is an old rod frame so it has some previous mounts welded in that I'll be removing.

Lots of work yet to be done!  Got to wrap up my frame/suspension first before working on the motor.  I'm using 41 ford rear with a drop axle up front, all ford gear.







Looking for 292/312 block in Southern Utah. 90 min from Las Vegas.

Where are you located? You can put it in your tag line so it shows with each post. City, state would be enough so people close to you could tell. Did you follow Tim McMasters build for his Model A sedan? He may have some suggestions or ideas that could help. Chuck

Y's guys rule!
Looking for McCullouch VS57 brackets and parts. Also looking for 28 Chrysler series 72 parts. And early Hemi parts.

MoonShadow, 292 w/McCulloch, 28 Chrysler Roadster, 354 Hemi)
Manchester, New Hampshire

For mounting a Y in a foreign chassis there are basically 2 choices: 1) using the side mounts about midway back on the block and by the rear tranny support or 2) supporting the front of the engine near the timing cover and again by the rear trany support. Way back in the day Hurst used to make adaptors that mounted to the front of the block and landed rubber biskets on the flat head V8 locations.  As mentioned above this was essentially the second type of mount. 
Most Ford Pass cars with Y's have a tubular X member that catches the motor mounts and part of the front suspension.  This is a very strong piece that could be cut out of the original chassis and grafted into the A bone.  I would worry a little about just putting 45 Deg brackets directly on the A bone because the 45 deg bracket will put a side load on the side member that will equal the weight of the engine.
Were it mine to do, I would probably go for a type 2 mount because it will give more room for headers steering gear etc

Doug T

The Highlands, Louisville, Ky.