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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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I know there are tons of threads on putting a PCV on the Y block but I'm not having luck with the search feature...
I'll be replacing head gasket(s) this winter (only one is leaking...Should I do both?).
The valley cover on the '59 292 in my Model A has no provision for a PCV. Nothing on Ebay right now. Do I want to just modify the one I have and if so, any suggestions on making a baffle so the oil doesn't get sucked into the carb? I found some Moroso brand grommets with built in baffles but I don't know how well they'd work...one of the reviews all but confirmed my concerns.
Thanks.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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If you’re pulling a head, the valley cover is a piece of cake. Here’s the link to when you asked that almost a year ago.
I don’t usually have much luck with the search function either, got lucky this time.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic159705.aspx
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Deleted due to better installations and available stock parts.
If using a screw in PCV valve to the base of the carb or intake; a Standard V100 works correctly in that direction. It is the replacement for Ford and GM cars for that era.
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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The only true way (IMO) to fashion a functioning FYB PCV SYSTEM without opening the rocker cover(s), is to use the OEM setup as was used on the 1961-62 FORD/MERC PASS CAR (2V) or 1961-64 292 TRUCK (2V/4V) The 4V is preferable but the 2V SYSTEM can be modified.
The shield under the rear of the valley cover is a SPLASH SHIELD designed to deflect oil splash from the DIST DRIVE. This will not prevent ingestion of fumes/mist into the PCV SYSTEM. The bell shaped adapter (baffle) is designed to do that along with the long metal cooling tube (allows vapor(s) to cool and drop back down.
The front baffle on the valley pan is also needed to direct ventilation draw to the rocker arm areas.
These setups shouldn't be that hard to find as farmers are still using old trucks or have then sitting in the yard.
CASCO advertises being able to modify and early pan to PCV/late ROAD DRAFT. Have no idea of the quality.
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By Richard - 2 Years Ago
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I have a nice valley pan with pcv valve. Worked great on my 312. I replaced it with blue Thunder. $80 plus shipping pm me if interested. I did drill small holes on the gasket area for sheet metal screws for tighter leak proof fit.   |
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By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
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I have baffled grommets in the valve covers. They work well in that location.
There was a problem with them where a thin layer of rubber blocked the opening of the baffle. That had to be removed with a razor.
I don't know that I would use grommets in a drilled sheet metal cover. I'd be concerned that the thin metal might cut into the grommet. But in thicker materials, like a cast cover or proper sheet metal flange, it will work well.
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By Richard - 2 Years Ago
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Respectfully Please help me understand. The sheet metal screws go around the valley pan perimeter and have nothing to do with the baffling for the pcv. It never caused a problem nor did it leak. Thank you,
Richard
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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KULTULZ,
What's the difference between the 2V and 4V? How does the 2V need to be modified? I can't imagine why they'd even be different. Another "Better Idea," no doubt!
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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I’m guessing it’s how the vapor would mix in the intake. Ford engineers must have felt the front was better for the 2V and better under the 4V or cheaper to manufacture which is always the most important. Notice today that aftermarket carburetors have a hose fitting on the front for the most part.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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So the one I want has the PCV hole in the rear of the cover, as opposed to the front?
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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Deyomatic (11/2/2022)
So the one I want has the PCV hole in the rear of the cover, as opposed to the front?
Try not to confuse the vacuum source with where the inlet for the PCV gasses originate. The PCV valve can be at either end of that line and be effective. The valley cover with the rear baffle is always a great choice for a PCV valve air source and my druthers are to put the PCV valve at the cover rather than at the vacuum source. But it doesn’t matter where the vacuum is sourced as long as it’s close to the carburetor. Using the port at the rear of the intake manifold that was originally used for the vacuum wipers is not a suitable location for the vacuum source as it’s too far from the carburetor and tends to lean out the rear cylinders.
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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KULTULZ,
What's the difference between the 2V and 4V? How does the 2V need to be modified? I can't imagine why they'd even be different. Another "Better Idea," no doubt!
If you look at the ILL's I posted, FORD had two FYB system designs, one for a two-barrel carburetor application and the other for a four barrel carburetor application.
The 4V (4BBL) design sources the vacuum signal at the intake manifold carb plenum so that ingested vapors can be distributed somewhat evenly among the cylinders. The 2V (2 BBL) design has the vacuum source on two intake manifold runners, which will overload those cylinders with vapors and possibly disturb air/fuel mixture on those particular cylinders.
You have to understand how the system works before any modification(s).
BASIC THEORY - https://auto.howstuffworks.com/positive-crankcase-ventilation-system.htm
To have an effective system 2V system (IMO), one would NEED TO emulate ... ??? ... the 4V system with a carb spacer w/ vacuum inlet nipple. And yes, it was a 'BETTER DESIGN".
I cannot understand why no one has not written a detailed TECH ARTICLE to hopefully explain what is going on rather than endless discussions, varying opinions and arguments.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Gotcha...thanks gents. I had read about the intake vs. carb vacuum source. I think my Holley has a vacuum source at front and back that I can use.
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By oldcarmark - 2 Years Ago
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I used the Moroso Baffled Grommet on mine. 4 Years works fine. No excessive Oil usage. You can use that with the existing Valley Cover. Just use a Hole Saw to cut proper size Hole. I used the correct Grommet that fits PCV and Super Glued it inside the Moroso Grommet.
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By seishank65 - 2 Years Ago
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oldcarmark, what PCV valve did you use?
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Here's what I ended up finding. Thanks to a guy on the HAMB...
Looks like some kind of metal repair was made to where you now see the Rivet Nut but it's solid...
I had a few questions...
1. The scrubby metal thing that's stuck inside the square baffle part...do I need to do something to keep that captive? It doesn't SEEM like it would come out but it doesn't seem like it would be good if it did. I could run a few self tapping screws along the edge and make a "cage," if I need to...Does it even need to be in there?
2. I have seen the other thread about which PCV Valve to use...why not the stock one? Looks like it screws right in, maybe an O ring to seal it, instead of the gasket?
3. If I decide to use a grommet and a different style PCV, then should I run a bolt into that Rivet Nut?
4. What needs to be cut/trimmed so that the heads do not need to be removed to get this off...at a later date?
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Mine has nothing and came from a1964 pickup. I’ve never found oil in the lines or the PVC valve.
That looks like something my mom used to scrub pots and pans with in the 40-60’s.
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By oldcarmark - 2 Years Ago
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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This is really not going to do anything (IMO) and you would have to remove the valley cover on a regular basis to service/replace it.
And what if it fell out and landed in the lifter valley? The concept is correct but executed incorrectly (again - IMO).
1961 - 1962 FYB PASS CAR 292 2V INSTALL -
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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OK, let's try it this way -
You are not going to know how much blow-by/crankcase pressure is going to be drawn into the combustion chamber(s) unless it is excessive and carbons the plugs/piston crowns. Simple as that. You would need a BLOW-BY METER or AOS SYSTEM to know the extent of the ingestion.
I stumbled across a post describing fabricating an adapter for the valley cover -
MR. Ted Eaton had fashioned this as an alternative to the OEM separator -
I guess the intent was to use the valve grommet with the slit in the bottom. This will still allow vapors through the system and will hinder vacuum draw from the crankcase (IMO).
Now a separator is needed. Both BLUE THUNDER and MUMMERT includes a mesh strainer on their alum valley covers.
My thought is to modify the fabricated spacer to accept the strainer as used on the 5.0/5.8L EFI lower intake setups -
This strainer would slide into the adapter and could easily be serviced. The PCV VALVE would mount atop as in the OEM EFI setup. The only problem I could see if it would possibly interfere with the ECZ-9425-B intake with the vacuum port at the rear of the intake runners. This idea is in lieu (Fr.) of the OEM separator (which I personally would prefer but that is not neither here nor there).
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Kultulz,
What is the OEM separator? Just that big square portion where my brillo pad (I think it's a Big 45 metal cleaner, actually) is? Or does something go inside the stock one?
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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Deyomatic (12/11/2022)
Kultulz,
What is the OEM separator? Just that big square portion where my brillo pad (I think it's a Big 45 metal cleaner, actually) is?
Or does something go inside the stock one? The OEM SEPARATOR (1961-64) has no media filter element. It diverts the vacuum signal to a cooling tube which hopefully will allow contaminates to fall out of suspension and drain back to the separator/valley cover. FORD redesigned their system(s) on the early FE, MEL and SBF to use a mesh strainer. If one decided not to use the OEM SEPARATOR/ADAPTER, some type of mesh filtering media should be used (IMO) to trap vapors/particulates before entering the PCV VALVE and combustion chambers. This is (was) the OEM SEPARATOR -  PN - C1AE 6A665-G Refer back to this post for full system description - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost162453.aspx
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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You need to understand that I am a detail nut (CDO - Correct alphabetical order for OCD).
I want everything to appear as FORD, even if it is a performance upgrade. I also want it functional. If it doesn't work, it gets canned.
When I open the hood, it has to appear as OEM ASSY. A man has to maintain a certain level of pride.
NO CHI-COM CARB - CHI-COM GM HEI IGN - INTERSTATE BATTERY - STANT RADIATOR CAP - WORM CLAMPS - AND/OR MR. GASKET AIR CLEANER.
I have seen some gnarly things in my lifetime ... 
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By Richard - 2 Years Ago
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KULTULZ
I LIKE YOUR CONSTITUTION. I LIKE TO DO THINGS THAT SOMEONE IN THE LATE FIFTIES WOULD DO.
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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KULTULZ Since Ford/Mercury used screw type PCV Valves (mine is an original replacement) a V100 can be screwed into a fitting or the base of a carb with 3/8” pipe threads. The feed to the PCV valve would come from the device on the valley cover just as Ford did. I used molded 1/2” hose and a 1/2” aluminum line for my dual quad unit but you can see the idea. I had to cut the hose device to clear my manifold.
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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I LIKE THAT ...
Nice workmanship. I had seen that before but didn't know it was on a 2X4 install.
Was the needed adapter mod needed to clear the rear runner(s) on the intake?
Clean setup. The nice thing about the OEM valve was being able to disassemble and clean.
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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Richard (12/11/2022)
KULTULZ
I LIKE YOUR CONSTITUTION. I LIKE TO DO THINGS THAT SOMEONE IN THE LATE FIFTIES WOULD DO. Trying to keep a correct period appearance is nice, such as yours. Even if you graft a later system into an earlier install, it has to look as an OEM install (to me). SHOW AND TELL is very important to me.
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Yes, the left side and right rear runners are farther out than the stock 2 or 4 barrel manifold. I probably could have cleared with grommet and a 1/2” diameter tube with a collar welded to it but choose to do this. Not sure on the Blue Thunder or Mummert manifolds. My Blue Thunder has been machined on the right rear to clear the distributor so the my be out farther but also taller. With the air cleaner on nothing is noticeable. I should probably paint the 1/2” tube black. Thanks for the compliment.
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks for the compliment ...
THANX for the detail for me to offer the compliment.
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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I too like things to look like they were made like the factory might have done it. Most forget a “clean airline” to feed the system. You can see mine from the oil fill tube. Stant offers a breather cap with hose connection.
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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Nicely done. I understand (and the need for) the CLOSED PCV SYSTEM.
I really like how you did the HTR HOSE and AC LINE detail. Blower motor inside the heater box?
As for the PCV TUBE, I would (IMO) leave it natural as were the later OEM tubing. Not b!tching, but your detailing is spot on (IMO).
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By KULTULZ - 2 Years Ago
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Here is a low buck idea-
PCV Valve Elbow - Fabricated From 6758 Road Draft Tube
It will move the valve away from direct spray at the least.
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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Deyomatic (12/22/2022)
Good evening, Ted.
I have a thread about PCV valves but wanted to check on how YOU do it. Do you use the factory valley cover that has the provision for the PCV? Do you run any kind of baffle in that, if you do? Am I better off drilling a hole and using a baffled rubber grommet in the valley cover that does NOT have the PCV provision?
Thanks in advance for your insight. Deyo
Deyo sent me this as a private message but the response is detailed so I’ll share it here.
I use the factory baffled valley covers for all Ford Y PCV valve installations. These came on the 1958 thru 1964 Y’s and have the hole at the back for either a rear mounted road draft tube or an oil separator that connects to a PCV valve depending upon the year and application. The ’58-’64 covers all have the flat baffle (tray) below that opening along with a ¼-20 threaded hollow stud positioned within the exposed hole to facilitate fastening the road draft tube or oil separator. I’m thinking 1961 was the first year for the PCV valve on the Ford Y but the covers are all the same in regards to the rear opening and lower tray from 1958 thru 1964. While that bell looking piece is called an oil separator, all the oil separating is done at the lower tray in the valley cover while the oil separator ends up be a handy piece that bolts to the valley cover to just redirect the air flow to the PCV valve.
While the factory PCV valve installations use the oil separator with a hose connecting to a front of intake manifold threaded PCV valve, I opt to put the PCV valve at the back of the engine simply for a cleaner look. I have two options for this with the simplest being removing the ¼-20 hollow stud from the tray that’s centered in the hole and using a Dorman #42323 PCV grommet in the existing valley cover hole. When removing the ¼”-20 hollow tube, the remaining hole in the lower tray is plugged with a small bolt and nut to eliminate a potential path for oil to go directly to the PCV valve. The PCV valve goes directly in that grommet with a hose then going to a direct vacuum source either at the carburetor or close to the base of the carburetor.
The other option is machining an extended spacer to be used with the factory gasket that fastens to the original ¼-20 stud in the tray mounted valley cover. This uses the same aforementioned Dorman PCV valve grommet. While more complicated than just installing a grommet in the existing valley cover hole, it does give the option or reinstalling the rear mounted road draft tube for restoration purposes.
Here’s the link giving more detail on this one.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost152554.aspx
Another plus to going with a PCV valve when switching to a modern aftermarket carburetor is that most of those carbs already have a richened idle circuit to compensate for using a PCV valve.
I will add that in 1989 I added a PCV valve to my ’55 Customline with a 272. On that one, I simply used a hole saw and cut a hole in the factory non-baffled valley cover between the heated crossover and cylinders 3 & 4 at the intake. There’s over 200K miles with that setup without any oil consumption issues so on that one I got lucky in that there’s no oil being thrown up in that particular location.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted
So what if I follow your first option...I can run a screw down into the nutsert that someone installed in my valley cover to plug that hole up and then run the appropriately sized grommet and PCV? I don't need to do anything else to that big square "baffle" as far as blocking off oil from getting in there? It's alright to keep the side open as shown in the second photo here?
 
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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The existing square baffle does a great job in keeping oil away from the road draft tube opening in the valley cover. No extra filler or foil is needed. Other than just plugging the original ¼-20 hole that’s in the baffle, all you need is a rubber grommet in the existing hole and the PCV valve and you are good to go.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted.
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