By 30 coupe - 4 Years Ago
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Any one know what John Mummert's aluminum intake manifold clamps sell for? I looked on his web site price sheet, but did not see a price listed. Has anyone actually used any of these? I would like to hear what you think about them. Thanks, ----Jim
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By 62bigwindow - 4 Years Ago
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I have them on my engine. They work just like they should and look great.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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While I was not aware of John Mummert offering the aluminum turtles (clamps) for the Ford Y intake manifolds, they are available from Blue Thunder. For the Blue Thunder Y intakes, the turtles are an extra cost option but I always order them when also ordering the BT intakes. While I use those aluminum turtles with the BT intakes, I’ve never needed them for use with other Y intake manifolds simply due to having a plentiful supply of oem turtles.
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By 62bigwindow - 4 Years Ago
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I may have been mistaken on where I got them. I was thinking I got them from John but it's been 5 years since I bought them.
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By charliemccraney - 4 Years Ago
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The Blue Thunder clamps are cast aluminum with a slight counterbore for a washer. John does show some cast aluminum clamps on his website. http://www.ford-y-block.com/accessories.htm
I had to trim some of the clamps for use with my Blue Thuinder manifold in order for them to work better with the manifold. Easy to do with a belt or disc sander. These were produced over 10 years ago so new ones might be different and might not be a problem when used with a stock manifold..
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks Charlie. While the picture of John’s clamps closely mimic the look of the oem clamps, the Blue Thunder clamps have a different look. Here’s a picture of the Blue Thunder manifold clamps (turtles).
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By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
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By 30 coupe - 4 Years Ago
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Ted, which do you think would work best with an Edelbrock 573 intake? I am a bit "worried" about the off-set on the Blue Thunder Clamps, although I like the looks of them better. Thanks for your opinion, it is valuable to me. I still have not found a price listed any where for either, or a source for the Blue Thunder clamps, other than e-bay
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By 30 coupe - 4 Years Ago
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Thank you to every one who responder to my questions.---Jim
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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Ted (1/22/2020)
While I was not aware of John Mummert offering the aluminum turtles (clamps) for the Ford Y intake manifolds, they are available from Blue Thunder. For the Blue Thunder Y intakes, the turtles are an extra cost option but I always order them when also ordering the BT intakes. While I use those aluminum turtles with the BT intakes, I’ve never needed them for use with other Y intake manifolds simply due to having a plentiful supply of oem turtles. I have an Aluminum Offy but no Clamps. Can I use the Ones that are used on the original Cast Iron Intake or do I need to look for others?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 4 Years Ago
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Use your originals. That's all we had in the '50s.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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30 coupe (1/24/2020) Ted, which do you think would work best with an Edelbrock 573intake? I am a bit "worried" about the off-set on the Blue Thunder Clamps, although I like the looks of them better. Thanks for your opinion, it is valuable to me. I still have not found a price listed anywhere for either, or a source for the Blue Thunder clamps, other than e-bay
oldcarmark (1/25/2020)
I have an Aluminum Offy but no Clamps. Can I use the Ones that are used on the original Cast Iron Intake or do I need to look for others?
I have used the Blue Thunder aluminum turtles (clamps) only on the Blue Thunder intake manifolds. The BT turtles are offset on the mounting holes so that could give issues when used on other manifolds. For all the other intake manifolds, I’ve simply used the factory or oem turtles. Be aware that there were different sizes on those oem turtles and some of the early designs may be just too long to fit some of the aftermarket manifolds. When I get a chance, I’ll post a picture showing some of the various factory turtles.
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By 30 coupe - 4 Years Ago
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Thank You Ted, I look forward to you posting the pictures of the different types of clamps.-- Jim
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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Here is a picture of the various intake manifold turtles that are sitting here. The top one is the aluminum Blue Thunder unit with an offset hole while the remaining turtles are oem Ford. The second from the bottom clamp is cast iron and can be found on the 1963-1964 Y engines.
Edit: See the revised picture later in this thread. Here’s the link. http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost150181.aspx
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By 30 coupe - 4 Years Ago
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Thank you Ted. I did know about 2 of them, but had forgotten. I have never seen the cast iron ones.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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As a FYI, the 1957 factory dual quad aluminum intake manifolds used the same longer steel clamps (turtles) as those used on the earlier Ford Y’s. On the picture above, that clamp is the bottom clamp. The 2V and 4V cast iron intakes in 1957 used a shorter turtle and it’s 2nd from the top in the above picture.
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By charliemccraney - 4 Years Ago
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What's the middle one? '58-'62? It seems like they are the ones I have the most of. I had not even been aware of the 2nd and bottom ones, yet.
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By Oldmics - 4 Years Ago
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Here is a picture of the correct "E" code clamps. Approximatly 2 1/8 in length. As you can see it differs slightly when compared to Teds clamp. I have seen "E" code machines lose points for not having these exact clamps in Judging.
Oldmics
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By NoShortcuts - 4 Years Ago
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Oldmics. Did Ford use the same intake manifold clamps on the over-the-parts counter '56 Ford Power Pack intake that were used on the '57 E code intakes?
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By Oldmics - 4 Years Ago
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Charlie Curiously No manifold clamps were supplied in the 56 Race Kit.
There was no valley pan to accomidate the dual quad manifold in the kit either.
Oldmics
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By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
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Here is a picture of the correct "E" code clamps. Approximatly 2 1/8 in length. As you can see it differs slightly when compared to Teds clamp.
I have seen "E" code machines lose points for not having these exact clamps in Judging.
The 1959 MPC FINAL ISSUE (Pub 1959) -
... shows EAD 9446-A (2.21" L) as being used on all 1957 FORD & BIRD. But I do see the difference in yours and Ted's example. This MPC is an earlier issue compared to the 1949/1959 FINAL ISSUE 1964 so chances are there was nothing deleted (IMO).
The 56 8V Kit did not require special clamps or valley pan as the 1957 E-CODE plenum was enlaarged requiring the drop for air cooling the underside on the intake.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 4 Years Ago
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Kultulz, my '56 260 HP kit has a flat plate valley cover with the rear road draft tube hole with the metal tray under the draft tube hole. If I set the manifold on an engine with a standard valley cover it interferes with the manifold and won't let it seat on the head ports. I have had this kit since '59. I did not get the hold downs, I just used some that fit.
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By NoShortcuts - 4 Years Ago
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Oldmics (1/30/2020)
Charlie Curiously No manifold clamps were supplied in the 56 Race Kit. There was no valley pan to accommodate the dual quad manifold in the kit either. Oldmics
Oldmics Thanks for the info, John. My recollection when you obtained that Power Pack set-up and opened it up with Felix, is that while it was in its original crate, some items were not there. -Hey! That was awhile ago! The time sure is slipping by, isn't it! Felix's fire was in 2013! Gosh . . .
My understanding is akin to what John (Hoosier Hurricane) has indicated. The valley pan used with the '56 Power Pack set-up was a flat steel plate with the crankcase vent tube opening in the back per the '55-'57 'Bird. Felix uses 12 gauge steel for the re-productions Power Pack valley pan that he makes.
John, in the C.T.C.I. regional and national meets that you've attended or served as a Concourse judge, have you seen any '56 'Birds or '56 passenger cars with the '56 Power Pack besides your own white, '56 'Bird?
Regards, Charlie
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By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
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Kultulz, my '56 260 HP kit has a flat plate valley cover with the rear road draft tube hole with the metal tray under the draft tube hole. If I set the manifold on an engine with a standard valley cover it interferes with the manifold and won't let it seat on the head ports. I have had this kit since '59. I did not get the hold downs, I just used some that fit.
John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"
Now that is interesting. So there must have been a unique pan offered. Did you acquire the original kit or got the car with it already installed? The kit was sold over the counter and supposedly no parts were service parts so they would not be catalogued in the CHASSIS CATor MPC.. The list shown in the SERVICE LETTER was the only listing (as far as I know). The component list should have shown engineering numbers. If one needed a replacement part, the dealer would have to order directly from FORD. Or that is the way it worked when I was there.
I had the SERVICE LETTER but am having trouble with my computer and cannot retrieve it. Maybe oldmics can post it?
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By Oldmics - 4 Years Ago
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Charlie When I did acquire the kit and after much communication with the 2nd owner of the kit , I did travel to Felix"s home to inventory the many parts and go thru the kit so that Felix and I understood all of its contents. Mostly we both were interested in the distributor information and myself in the camshaft specs.
What we did find was a few surprises about the carburators (only Felix and I have this knowledge) about how they were produced. Felix"s concerns were that since we did not recieve the kit from Ford that it may have been tampered with.
While I see his argument , we both opened multiple sealed envelopes of parts for the first time since they were packaged. During the dig we both noticed the lack of the valley pan which is crucial for correct fitting of the dual quad manifold.
Since then I have acquired the RPO/Engineering Parts List for the 56 Race Kit.
All of the listed parts have an associated part number , it may be an XE part # but everything that was in the kit has a part # .
The ONLY EXCEPTION is the valley pan. While it is listed on the RPO - there is NO PART NUMBER ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
I am of the belief that the valley pan was not included in the kit. There was no mention of hold down clamps on the RPO document.
Since this was a race application I believe there was no knowledge that a modified valley pan was necessary until installation and actual use in the field discovered the problem.
The longer hold down clamps were probably a necessity for the long term application on the 57 "E" Code engines.
Felix and I go round & round on things .Thats why he"s so much fun to torment !
KT - Posting the Service Bulletin wont do much good since it has limited information on the parts included in the kit.
Hope all this is of some value to someone.
Oldmics
P.S - I have seen 3 - 56 Birds with the kits installed and I know of 1 - 56 passenger car that has had a "kludged" setup.
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By Oldmics - 4 Years Ago
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56 Power Pak Valley Pan - reproduction by Felix
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By NoShortcuts - 4 Years Ago
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Oldmics. THANKS for sharing, John! Interesting! What you've illustrated for many is the understanding that some information (like part numbers) is not always included in the parts books that we turn to! Some of the parts you've obtained from Felix had experimental identification numbers on them as I recall. Neat!
On a different note, some of the information Liz Robinson (Al's wife) has shared with CTCI members regarding the push by the new Board to make constructive changes, is a concern. Meaning well and doing well are not always related. The wholesale change in leadership that the membership approved last Fall, may be our organization's undoing . . . IF there's some way for me to help with what's afoot, Charlie Brown would be glad to be of help. I've been a member since ~1970.
Hope to see you at Spring Carlisle, John!
Charlie
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By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
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COVER - Valve Push Rod - 6519 - 1954-61 FYB
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By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
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THANX! to all for bringing this to light.
So the 56 FORD ALUM intake had a larger plenum. I saw the pan in photos but never connected the dots.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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John. Thanks for pointing out the difference on the E code intake clamps. While I did know that the ’57 dual quad intake required the earlier and longer clamps, I was not aware of how many different styles of those clamps were actually used on the Y until I went digging through the parts bins. I do have an original 1957 Thunderbird E code engine sitting here that does have the correct intake clamps on it which confirms what you had already mentioned. I went back through my parts bins and have revised the picture of intake clamps (turtles) and this time added the lengths for each. I’ve also numbered them so that anyone that has questions about a particular one can refer to it by number. #6 clamp on the picture would be the clamp style used on the 1957 dual quad intake manifolds. The #1 clamp is the aluminum Blue Thunder clamp while the #4 clamp is cast iron and found on the 1963-1964 292 engines.
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By NoShortcuts - 4 Years Ago
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Ted and all. I had never registered on FoMoCo having used soooo many different variations of intake manifold hold-down clamps on the y-block engine series! GooD Grief!
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By aussiebill - 4 Years Ago
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Agree ted, there the ones i have had among my lot ,
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