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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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I am considering a multiple carb setup for my '55 TBird and am wondering about hood clearance. Will a triple 2V or dual 4V setup clear my hood? No Teapots please.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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Well, it depends. Obviously a factory e code dual quad will fit. You’ll need the proper valley pan or a bit of modification on a stock one. Then you'll have to deal with replacing the teapots and fitting an air cleaner(s). I can’t speak to aftermarket dual quads, but I know some here have done it.
I ran an Offy tri power on my bird, and I had to shorten the rear air cleaner on the Ford 94 carbs. If you go read Ted and Joe's latest test on that manifold (with the little louvered air cleaners like I had) you’ll find that’s about as good a way as any to throw away some horsepower and keep yourself out of trouble. The proper way to do that is to mill the rear carb pad, I just took the easy way out.
I see other tripower on birds, so I’m sure there’s a way.
Go over to Eaton Balancing and read the different intake and exhaust test. You’ll find pretty much all the multi carb combos will run behind a Blue Thunder or Mummert manifold. Notice Mummert makes a low rise model specifically for birds and other hood clearing problems. But you sure can’t beat them for eye candy.
Someone, I think on this site, has a dual quad manifold with EFI units on it that he’s very happy with. Others have other small carbs in place of the teapots and are also happy. I don’t recall which ones are on birds though. You’ll probably get more responses after the holiday.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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What is needed is for someone to measure three carbs - H4000 - H4150 - WCFB MTG base to throttle body to ACL MTG pad (HGT) on the throttle body.
We know the 56/57 dual H4000's will fit with the proper ACL's.
The WCFB's as used on the VETTE gave nice street drive-ability but is $$$.
If there is some way to mount a later carb style (properly sized) on the EDEL 573 they would give you both performance and eye candy (IMO). You can source ACL's of varying HGT to close the hood (cutting carb pad HGT might alter flow)
Here is the EATON BALANCING TRI-POWER TECH ARTICLE for easy reference- http://www.eatonbalancing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/YBlock-146-Craine-3X2-Test.pdf
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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I have had a triple carb Y Block before. I think I was running Carter carbs. It's been a long time. Those 2V carbs are all pretty tall, but so are Teapots. Dual quads would look cool, but I'm wondering about drive ability. I will probably never open the secondaries.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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So you are leaning more to TRI-POWER?
The later FE SERIES 3X2 looked good (to me) with the 2300's. The 94's and 97's don't appeal to me as it makes the engine look similar to a flat-head (IMO).
I am not trying to persuade you, but research the scrub VETTE 283 8V WCFB as they had a primary/secondary carb setup for street use. Either system is going to be hard on fuel as you won't be able to keep your foot out of it ... 
(DISCLAIMER - The above is IMO and is not intended to start any food fights)
Reason For Edits - Poor Command of The English Language
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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miker Posted-
"You’ll need the proper valley pan or a bit of modification on a stock one."
I have been wondering about that. Regarding the 1957 8V, how do you get the extra clearance (heat distance - air flow) with an ALUM FINNED valley cover? Do they overheat the underside of the intake manifold?
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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I am not leaning one way or another. What I would like is a nice looking multiple carb setup that is reliable and responsive. The 2300s that came on the FE motors look great. They are even available new. I have never seen them on a Y block, but they would make for a perfect combination. I agree that the older 2V carbs make the engine look like a flathead. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a little too vintage for me. Dual Edelbrocks would work if they will clear my hood.
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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Phil, here’s a link to the set up Drylakesracer has. The rare A/C probably wouldn’t clear the bird, but if he gave you some measurements from the top of the carbs maybe it would give you a start on a cool set up. He seems very happy with the drivability.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic110355.aspx
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks for the link. Food for thought...
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By Ted - 6 Years Ago
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How about a 2X4 intake with two barrel carbs. Carbs could be Holley or Ford/Autolite. Plenty of room for 2V carbs and would expect it to be very drivable.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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What a great idea. I'll bet it would run good too. Fabricate some linkage from an FE motor and you are good to go. I suppose you would be running on both carbs all the time? 1950s Cobra style?
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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What would the benefit be? If going that route, you may as well mount a MUMMERT/BLUE THUNDER intake with a suitable HOLLEY and go for performance shouldn't you?
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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Probably difficult to fit under the hood of a T-Bird since adapters, which probably are not already made, are required. Plus a custom air cleaner would have to be made. Expensive project. It would look neat but I agree, at that point, single 4 is the way to go.
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By NoShortcuts - 6 Years Ago
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Florida_Phil. Consider the intake set-up shown and described by this eBay seller. Unique, sorted-out, complete, and set-up for a 'Bird. Currently listed on eBay.
Click the link below.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Y-Block-Dual-Y-H-Carb-Interceptor-Marine-Intake-vintage-speed-boat-rat-rod/253992016608?hash=item3b231a9ae0:g:vYsAAOSwnh9b33KP:rk:13:pf:0
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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Here’s a link to famdoc3’s post about dual 2 barrel injection units on a 2x4 manifold. About half way down.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic135011.aspx#bm135266
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Lots of options will work if you can get the hood to close. I see a lot of those marine intake systems on EBay. That would fit under a TBird hood with ease. I think they look ugly, especially with the two radiator intake hoses required.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 6 Years Ago
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Phil, since your goal seems to be "eye candy" above all else. Go full tilt, add a 4-71 and CUT A BIG HOLE IN YOUR HOOD and be done with it. Pete
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By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago
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he wow factor, just like 2 4's or 3 2's.
KULTULZ (11/24/2018)
What would the benefit be? If going that route, you may as well mount a MUMMERT/BLUE THUNDER intake with a suitable HOLLEY and go for performance shouldn't you?
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Owning a classic car today is not all about performance. If it was, I would slap a 427 into my TBird and be done with it. Where would I drive my fast car and who would I race? Here in North Central Florida we are blessed to have long country roads without much traffic. In town, you are lucky if you can drive over 50 mph. Street car performance died years ago. Back then, cruising Miami on a Saturday night was one drag race after another. We hardly ever killed anyone, but their wasn't much traffic then either.
Today's classic car world is about nostalgia, cruise ins, bench racing and talking about cars. How many of those dual quad motors you see on cruise night actually run well? Not many. I own my 55 TBird because it rings a lot of bells for me at the same time. It reminds me of when I first started messing with hot rods. My wife likes the TBird because it's a convertible sports car. Back in the day, Y Blocks were cheap and for a few hundred dollars you could by a V8 Ford with a manual transmission and burn those narrow tires to the ground. There is not much of a Wow factor in a single four barrel 292 engine. Dual quads would look cool. Tea pot carbs are uncool unless you are a concurs judge.
I hope I haven't insulted anyone by my statements. We are all individuals. I want my TBird engine to look like it has 600 HP and drive like it's going to church. From the cars I see on my local cruise nights, that's a pretty popular theme.
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By Ted - 6 Years Ago
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Well said. I see where too many people tried to push you back to using a single four but I do a lot of engines for customers who simply want the ‘WOW’ factor when it comes to carburetion. Hence the popularity of multi-carb setups on these older engines. It’s a given that most older 3X2 and 2X4 setups do not equal the performance of a modern single four intake and carb but as you said, it’s tough to now to find a place to legally run those engines to their full potential. I just did a 3X2 Offenhauser setup on a rebuilt Y for a customer for a ’32 Ford and it was not about performance but getting the car and engine back to a nostalgia late Fifties look. That 3X2 setup likely cost on the order of 40-50 horsepower over a modern induction setup but ultimate performance was not the goal here. The goal was just a good driver with old time looks.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Someone should build a Y Block Hilborn Fuel Injection look alike with a modern fuel injection setup inside. Make it low enough to fit under a TBird hood with integrated air filters. Now that would be cool...
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By GREENBIRD56 - 6 Years Ago
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One of our members - can't remember the handle - used the two throttle bodies off an "IROC-Z" Camaro and ended up with a nice looking outfit. With the right computer and tune it probably had reasonable performance.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 6 Years Ago
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I was at a shop yesterday that built guys cars . Took a average car and made it into Restomod he was working on a 1967 Mustang fastback. It had been in his shop for almost a year and only the
engine/transmission were finished. No paint, no upholstery, wheels or tires and the the guy was into it $40,000 and no end in sight. It boggled my mind.
I guess that's the future of the old car hobby. He told me that to build a car for SEMA show in Vegas it might cost $300,000, YEA wow. Pete
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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That's one way to go. I have a friend who builds all his cars into restomods. When he's done, there is nothing original left but the fenders. In my mind that's not a classic car anymore. That's a new car built out of new parts. Everyone is different. I prefer to leave my cars as they would have been built in the decade I am aiming for. My favorite decade for cars was the sixties. It started out with home built hot rods and ended with muscle cars. Rack and pinion steering was for British cars and fuel injection was just damned mysterious. Nothing wrong with upgrading the car for safety purposes. I upgraded my master cylinder to dual chambers because I don't need any more excitement when I drive. If a fuel injection unit looks like Hilborn injection, that's cool. Not everyone wants to drive around with a screw driver on their front seat. I just spent the entire morning sorting out the wiring of my O/D. I could have swapped in a modern tranny and saved myself the trouble. Where's the fun it that?
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By famdoc3 - 6 Years Ago
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I am the one with the twin throttle body set up under the original air cleaner. The T'bird has the wow factor is there and it runs like a charm. Does everything you are wanting to do and yes you can use an aluminum valley pan if you want under an original manifold from Canada. Your problem is the air cleaner which is not easily available and if you can find one will be unreasonably expensive. Good luck! MIKE
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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Phil, nicely said about what it is you’re looking for. Given that, any ot the 3x2 or 2x4 manifolds will work. There’s a variety of ways to get around the carbs (avoiding the teapots) or the air cleaners (as in the back carb using 94’s and some manifolds). Many small aircleaners will fit under the hood of the bird, although you might have to make an adapter plate for the base. Typically no big dead.
This is the neatest air cleaner I ever saw. Doane Spencer’s 55 2x4 55 bird.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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Now somebody has an imagination - 1955 FYB RAM-AIR SHAKER ...
Do you have any shots of the hood modification(s), steel or fiberglass?
What's with the coolant manifolds?
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Wow! That's more like it. I can't believe he squeezed two 4V Holleys back to back on that manifold. I don't care for the dual water inlet's, but that just me. Thanks for the input. I'm just getting started with this TBird hot rod. You never know where this trip might take me.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago
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Phil, there is a 3-2 setup for sale on Fordbarn, Edelbrock manifold, carbs, fuel block, air cleners
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks. I asked for pics. Do you think these can be made to clear a 55 Thunderbird hood?
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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Near as I can tell from previous pictures, there was no hood modifications to clear the custom air cleaner on the Spencer car.
Here’s a start on reasearching that car, but it really would deserve a thread of its own.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2013/08/09/a-bird-in-the-hand-both-doane-spencer-thunderbirds-head-to-auction/
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Looks a little rough, but I've seen worse. The Stromberg carbs are a lot taller than Holley 4Vs.
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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That's a 354 so you may not want that.
355 with no carbs here, http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic141247.aspx
The 357 in that listing is now mine but it sounds like it was in a T-bird.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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I think an Edelbrock 257 Intake with two 500 cfm AFB style 4V carbs mounted inline would provide the best compromise between 1960s looks and street performance on my TBird. Mounting two Holley 4100s with the assorted linkage required would be too troublesome. WCFBs look to be too tall to clear the hood. I don't think 3/2s will clear my hood either. They look great on some cars. In my opinion, not so great on a 55 TBird.
I assume you can buy a 257 intake for $500 or so? The carbs would run about $350 each. If you could find two AFBs worth rebuilding, you may get off cheaper. Throw in another $100 for linkage and you may spend $1,200 without the air cleaners and adapters. We could machine our own adapters to make them as thin as possible. Hood clearance could be issue, but dual teapots look taller.
Throttle response should be OK. I doubt the secondaries will ever open. Any opinions?
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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You thinking about a couple 1403 or so Edelbrocks?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago
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Dual teapots clear the hood on my '56 Bird, but they have the Bird linkage with reversed carbs. Reversed carbs would put the bowl of the rear carb more to the rear, and it still clears the scoop at its shallowest point. I should add that I have 1/2" spacers under the carbs. I don't have an AFB to compare, but in my mind they are shorter than the 4000s.
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By DryLakesRacer - 6 Years Ago
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A friend I see quite often had a 55 Bird in high school with an Offy manifold and 3 97's. I don't know about air cleaners but it all fit under the the hood. That was back in 57.
Ted is right about wanting multiple carbs, you just want them. I"ve got a brand new Blue Thunder in the box along with a New Summit carb and won't give up my dual quads. Even tho I have the big red Purolater air filter from 1956 (probably worth more than the car) I can't tell you the inside satisfaction I get when someone looks at the 2 wing nuts on the top and then bends over to look under the air cleaner to see 2 four barrels... It's the same feeling I get with an E code 57 Ford, a Golden Commando 57 Plymouth or 57 Merc... there is nothing like multiple carbs. The only difference for me is there are damn few 56 Fords.
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By PF Arcand - 6 Years Ago
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Can't comment on hood clearance issues, but if going with Tri- Power & wanting any sort of performance improvement, "pass" on the Offenhauser intake. Ted's testing of 7 Tri Power setups rated that intake dead last!.. They sold well in their day, based on the storied reputation of Fred Offenhauser (Sr.) but the Y-block intakes were not built by his company, but by a relative's company with the same name..
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By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago
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I think it is the back carb that is a problem with a TBird hood. I understand some owners shaved down the mounting flange to get the needed clearance. One person that I talked about clearance said that he did machine down the flange (or flanges)
Florida_Phil (11/28/2018)
Thanks. I asked for pics. Do you think these can be made to clear a 55 Thunderbird hood?
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By DryLakesRacer - 6 Years Ago
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Florida... If you want I'll measure from the valley cover pan to the top of the carb air horn. Front of the front and rear of the rear of my dual quads. The manifold is an Edelbrock and carbs are Carter WCFB's there are 3/8" phenolic spacers under each one. The stock Ford manifold is probably lower.. I don't know anyone with 3-2's I can measure.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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It would be nice if all of the differing intake types, both 6V (EDEL 553 and 573) and 8V (56 and 57) intakes were measured and the results listed here for future reference(s), in this instance from valley pan to intake plenum heights .
Also, carb heights (2V and 4V) base to throttle body ACL MTG boss) in the same fashion as the 8V setups CTR to CTR measurements
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Measurements would be helpful. I am leaning toward dual AFBs. The best carbs for me won't be polished. There is a rebuilt set on EBay right now. I can't imagine two of these would have hood clearance issues. These would look great on my TBird with a couple of small Cobra style air cleaners. If I can find a decent manifold, I would be good to go. I've had some issues with old aluminum manifolds before. It can cost more to fix one than their worth.
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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There is a 257 on ebay right now, https://www.ebay.com/itm/FM257-Vintage-edelbrock-intake-manifold-Y-block-Ford/183524392684 . When Ted tested 2x4 intakes, the 255 actually did a little better. Could be a fluke with the particular intakes used but 2 sets were used with the same result, 1 set stock and 1 set ported. http://www.eatonbalancing.com/2014/01/17/y-block-ford-dual-quad-testing-on-aluminum-heads-part-ii/
The same trend existed with the '56 and '57 Ford manifolds.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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The EBay asking price for the 257 is $600 and the manifold has some stripped threads. Seems high to me. It would be worth the money if it didn't have issues.
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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That is a consideration. Easy fix, though. You could send a message and make an offer. If nothing else is wrong besides some stripped carb flange threads, I'd jump on it. Things like that need to be had when they become available. Could be waiting around a while for another to show up.
If you get Y Block Magazine, check those classifieds, too. I think there has been a 2x4 of some kind listed there recently.
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By DryLakesRacer - 6 Years Ago
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The AFB's will need the 1/2" spacers but I still think they will fit under the hood. I see the one carb with the choke removed has a set of those booster "collars" that lower the CFM. Anyone else ever try them? I would think for the use of AFB's it would be a good thing since finding the 400's is getting difficult.
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By Vic Correnti - 6 Years Ago
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Here is a picture of my eye candy, 2 600 CFM Edelbrocks on a 257 Edelbrock manifold with adapters from Speedway and fit in my 55 Bird. This combo was dyno'd at 15 HP less then a Holley 750 and Mummert intake. I have had the carbs on a 255 intake and that was an easier filter fit then the 257. I have had 2x4's on this car since the 60's and wouldn't have it any other way. Once the Edelbrocks have been tuned I have never touched them. I have had the front carb and the rear carb as the primary and it doesn't matter, right now they are both linked together.
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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I looked in the most recent YBM and did not see any in the classifieds. I might not be remembering that correctly.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Perfect! Thanks for the info and the picture. Looks great.
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By DryLakesRacer - 6 Years Ago
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Checked with my friend at breakfast this morning on his 55 T-Bird with 3-2's. He had 97's on an Offy manifold with little chrome air cleaners and they cleared the stock hood. He had the air scoop open and he said you could see the chrome bonnets inside. It was in 57-58 and he still had the 6 volts. It was a 3-speed OD car.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 6 Years Ago
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I ran 3 94's on an Edlebrock 573 in my 57 Bird. Used Speedway bell shaped air cleaners and had enough hood clearance. The only interference is the screws that mount the chrome trim piece on the hood scoop. I had to grind the screws down where they come through the hood so they would not hit the front air cleaner.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Nice!! Thanks for the information. I have never seen an early TBird with triple deuces. Looks very period hot rod. I had a similar set up on a '57 Ford hardtop about 30 years ago. As I remember getting the linkage set up right was the hard part.
I have a few questions. I believe my old tri power used three Carter or Ford 2 barrels. I don't remember where I got them, but a local carb shop rebuilt them for me and I never had any issues. Is there any advantage in the carbs I use? Why were Strombergs preferred? Can I use other carbs? What are the differences between these carbs? Thanks.
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By DryLakesRacer - 6 Years Ago
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What ever you choose, purchase a Uni-Syn. They are available from Summit. The photos shows mine attached to a top for my 4 barrels but you wil never be dissatisfied if you idle off all three carbs. If keep the butterflies closed on the outers this may not be necessary; that's for others to answer here. 
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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I just got into this, so take this with a grain of salt. From what I've been able to gather it seems that original Ford / Holley or Stromberg will perform generally the same. It does seem that the Holley can have an advantage over the Stromberg because they may be slightly more modern and there are Holley variants that flow quite a bit more but this all depends on which Holley you are comparing to which Stromberg. Both of these carbs are quite popular and it really is a case of having too much info and opinion out there to sift through, complicating research but it seems that in general, more recent is better.
Carb options that will mount directly to the intake are Holley 94 (AA-1, 2100), 2110, Stromberg 97, which is produced new and in a Big97 (250cfm) version, Edelbrock 94 (a kind of reproduction of the Holley 94) and a Speedway 9 Super 7 (a reproduction Stromberg). If you can find them, there were also Demon carbs made for a while, modern looking but made to mount in place of a 94 or 97. There were also throttle bodies made by Retrotech EFI a while ago. Lot's of options from easy to practically impossible to find.
NOS manuals for the specific carburetors can be found on eBay. An early Y-block shop manual for vehicles so equipped should have info about 94s. Good for factory info and drawings, at least.
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By miker - 6 Years Ago
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X2 on the uni-syn, I’ve still got a workimg ome from the 60’s I bought to set up my uncle’s SU’s on an XKE. Did a lot of multiple carbs, including the 94’s when they were on my bird.
Here’s the link to Vintage Speed. He’s got mixed reviews of late, but was great when I dealt with him 18 years ago.
For some reason the catalog wound open on my iPad tonight (always has before), but he’s got quite selection of carbs, parts, aircleaners etc. Its worth looking thru just to see the options you have in one place.
Good luck with the project.
http://vintagespeed.com
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Great information as usual. Lots to think about. Thanks!
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By Pete 55Tbird - 6 Years Ago
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The CFM , cubic feet per minute flow from a 2BBL carb is calculated differently than that of a 4BBL carb
so be aware of and be careful of that. Different amount of vacuum for each. Pete
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By PF Arcand - 6 Years Ago
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The Strombergs were favoured by many Tri carb fans years ago probably because they were original equipment on some models in the 1930s. There were 3 models made at one time & one was a bigger unit but they are rare now. (the model #s escape me at the moment. But I believe the smaller one was a model #81) As for variants on the Holley 94's, the biggest & only one with an auto choke was the 1956 unit used mostly on Ford 272s. I believe the venturie size is 1-1/16"...
N.B.- Don't want to step on anyones fun, but if anyone here is looking to buy a Tri-Power intake & expecting good perfomance from it, avoid the Y-Block Offenhauser intake. Tested by our moderator Ted's shop, it performed badly, finishing dead last of 7 tested..
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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I have located an Edelbrock 257 Manifold in NOS condition. The price seems reasonable, so I am going to pull the trigger. I am now contemplating the carbs. I can buy some old carbs and deal with those issues, or find some new carbs that will work on my Y Block. Edelbrock 500 cfm Thunder Series AVS carburetors are one option. I already have a new Holley 0-1846-1 465 cfm carb on my motor now. If I buy another just like it, I can run dual Holleys. Both options require adapter plates. I believe both options will fit under my 55 TBird hood with small air cleaners. Will I have to mount the Holley carbs sideways? I have seen some mounted straight like an FE motor. Where do I buy linkage? Do I connect both primary shafts together?
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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I don't think modern Holleys will fit without either custom adapters or mounting them sideways, which complicates linkage.
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By Joe-JDC - 6 Years Ago
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Y Block intakes are dual plane, and need the carbs mounted front to back, not sideways. Your primaries would both be on one side. Edelbrocks, teapots, will work and look great. I have Edelbrocks on my 257, and if I remember correctly Vic C races Edelbrocks on a 257. Joe-JDC
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By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago
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At least some of the 2x4 intakes can have the carbs mounted sideways and still function as dual plane because the planes criss cross each other, rather than parallel like a single carb intake. Is the Edelbrock not one of them?
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Here are two photos of a Y Block with Holley carbs mounted in line. How is this done?
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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That top picture was one of my builds. That intake manifold is the Edelbrock FM255 which has a wider carburetor spacing than the Edelbrock 257. That wider spacing allows the use of inline model 4160 Holleys without a specialized offset carb adapter. Many of the dual quad manifolds for the Y can facilitate mounting the carburetors sideways and not inhibit air flow to the banks due to the staggered inlet pattern within the plenums. Here are pictures of the sideways mounted carbs on a Y in a station wagon.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted. Those are great photos. Where can I buy linkage like that? Can you please comment on the drive ability of this setup? I realize that is a lot of CFM for a 292. I doubt my secondaries will ever open.
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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Florida_Phil (1/1/2019)
Thanks Ted. Those are great photos. Where can I buy linkage like that? Can you please comment on the drive ability of this setup? I realize that is a lot of CFM for a 292. I doubt my secondaries will ever open.
Vacuum secondaries are very forgiving in that the secondaries open up only as much as required. That’s assuming that the original design was not tinkered with after the fact. When doing the Holley carbs in dual applications, the vacuum signal is essentially reduced in half to each carb which requires a ‘half’ tension secondary vacuum spring so that the secondaries still open at a reasonable rpm rather than a very high rpm or not at all. The long yellow spring in the secondary spring kit is a good starting point.
Drivabilty all hinges on how the carburetors are set up. Assuming the linkage is smooth and the carburetors are properly adjusted, then should be fun to drive.
Linkages for such setups usually have to be hand fabricated. There are some linkage kits available for the crossways mounted carbs on tunnel rams and those kits can likely be used as the basis with some modifications for hand built dual quad setups. Here are pictures of the linkage on my EMC engine entry which started out as a tunnel ram linkage kit.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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Many of the dual quad manifolds for the Y can facilitate mounting the carburetors sideways and not inhibit air flow to the banks due to the staggered inlet pattern within the plenums.
-TED
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By Joe-JDC - 5 Years Ago
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The carbs would have to be set up to idle on both carbs if mounted sideways, or use an open spacer. Since he is asking about a Thunderbird, I did not suggest using an open spacer. The 257 does have a divider in the middle of those pads. The divider goes directly through the hole drilled for vacuum to allow vacuum to be pulled from both planes. Joe-JDC
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Do you see any issues with my O/D using this setup? I do not utilize the O/D kick down switch. It's in the car, but I do not use it.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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Type of trans has little to do with it other than an AT with a modulator valve with low signal.
Review this regarding side-by-side H-D-4 throttle linkage kits, it should provide basic understanding of the system-
https://www.jegs.com/i/Weiand/925/4025/10002/-1
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By Vic Correnti - 5 Years Ago
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This is the linkage used with Edelbrocks.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Edelbrock-7094-Dual-Quad-Carburetor-Linkage,26823.html
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Thanks for the info. I should get the manifold in the next two weeks. I'm leaning toward the Edelbrocks. Two Holley 4Vs seem a little overbearing on a Y block and the linkage is complicated. I really don't want to deal with 60 year old carbs. Been there, done that.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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I'm leaning toward the Edelbrocks.
I would lean that way also, even though I am not an EDEL fan. They will make for a nice street engine (IMO only) and look nice when the hood is opened.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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I keep coming back to the use of two Holley 2Vs? I have never seen this setup, but it could look great with a custom oval 427 style air cleaner. I agree it's not vintage 50s hot rod, but to an old FE guy it looks great.
Drive ability should be responsive. You wouldn't need complicated progressive linkage and the carbs are readily available. Would turn some heads on cruise nights and start a lot of conversations. If you used two center pivot Holley 2Vs, you could call it a 4 pack! (no bumble bee stripes please)
Obviously you would need to use adapter plates. Would the 2V carbs and adapters distribute fuel correctly to the 4V holes in the manifold? Would any modifications be needed to an Edelbrock 257?
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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Sorry, I just don't see it, especially on a mid-fifties engine.
Maybe something like this was popular for roadsters before 4V or multi-carbs intake manifolds really came out.
A SGL 4V would be much more efficient. You will be working off two accel pumps and idle circuits. So much for fuel economy.
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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Florida_Phil (1/6/2019)
.....Obviously you would need to use adapter plates. Would the 2V carbs and adapters distribute fuel correctly to the 4V holes in the manifold? Would any modifications be needed to an Edelbrock 257?
On the Holley 2V carbs, the pump cams and discharge nozzles are easily tailored for a reduced accelerator pump shot. You would likely need to custom make the carburetor adapters as you would be adapting from a pair of small flange 4V intake patterns to the larger pattern 2V carburetor patterns. Intake manifold modifications would not be required. I’m not aware of any adapters like that being commercially available but I don’t picture them being that difficult to fabricate with some basic metal working skills. Fuel distribution would be the same as running dual quads so it would not be a issue assuming the throttle bores are all matched up accordingly. To give an idea of how easy it is to make an adapter, here’s one I made to allow the use of a Holley 4000 4V carb (Teapot) on the later model large flanged 4V intake manifolds.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted. Would you advise using two 500 CFM Holley 2V carbs or something smaller? What do you think of this setup for a street driven mostly stock engine?
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By Joe-JDC - 5 Years Ago
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What's wrong with using two Edelbrock 500 cfm, or two Edelbrock 600 cfm carbs? They look good, work good, don't leak fuel after sitting, are relatively inexpensive, and fit the manifold without much ado? A 500cfm 2V will not give you the gas mileage that a 500 cfm 4V does simply because of the size of the venturies. Two of them would be worse, and the spacer needed would increase the installed height. Joe-JDC
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Familiarity I guess. I've had a few Ford tri powers and they are sweet looking and running set ups. I have never played with AFBs. Most of my experience has been with Holley carbs. There's a first time for everything.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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If you can tune a Holley, you can tune an Edelbrock. The principles are the same and the Edelbrock comes with a fantastic manual so you can learn how it works and therefore, the analogs to a Holley so that you can use that knowledge..
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By miker - 5 Years Ago
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Having owned both Edelbrock and Holley’s I’m with Charlie. If you read the manual closely, and for me more than once, they’re probably easier to tune than a Holley. Removing the top to access the main jet (easily done with the carb on the car), and the springs and rods come out the top without removing the top. Those are the “power valve” enrichment. Once you get your head around it, they’re actually easier to mess with. And they run fine for almost any street application. Clearance on your manifold, I don’t have a clue.
I think there’s someone on this site running 2 2 barrels on a 2x4 manifold, but I think he’s using throttle bodies from EFI units.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Thanks for the input. I should get the 8V manifold this week. AFBs are the most likely candidate. I'm sure they will fit under my hood and I can buy them new. It looks like I will need to buy two 500 CFMs. From what I read on the Internet, they should work OK right out of the box. I don't run a choke on my Holleys. Here in Florida, a well tuned Y Block will start in all weather conditions. I recently went away for the holidays. When I came back, my engine started dead cold on the first crank. Cold around here is 40 degrees. If I do run chokes on my Edelbrocks, do I use one or two?
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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Florida_Phil (1/6/2019)
Thanks Ted. Would you advise using two 500 CFM Holley 2V carbs or something smaller? What do you think of this setup for a street driven mostly stock engine?
If doing a pair of two barrel carbs on a Y, I would be doing the Holley 350 cfm versions. As Joe brings up, the 500 cfm Holley 2V carbs would be on the big side and those carbs are noted for being gas guzzlers as well as having 50cc accelerator pumps which if using two, would have to be modified accordingly.
If just trying to keep it simple and looking for the WOW factor, then the 500 cfm Edelbrocks are popular in dual quad set ups and are expected to be very drivable. If looking for the increase in performance that comes about when using dual quad carbs, the Edelbrock carbs would need their weighted secondary flaps lightened so that the air flow through the secondaries comes in sooner. You have to remember that those carbs are calibrated for single four barrel use and when using them in pairs, the air flow is cut in half thereby reducing the air flow signal that opens the secondaries in half. The weighted secondary flaps would need their secondary flap counterweights modified accordingly if wanting the full potential of those carbs utilized.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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Would an Edelbrock AVS work without modification or does it still need to be modified even though it is adjustable?
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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If the 500 cfm 4V carb is available in the AVS version, then the secondary opening rpm is expected to be adjustable. In the case of the AVS series, the spring tension would simply be lessened to compensate for the reduction in air flow through the secondaries.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Summit offers the 500 cfm AVS Edelbrock carb without a choke for $341.95 each. Are these the carbs I should use? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1902/overview/
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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I received my Edelbrock 257 manifold today. It looks to be NOS. The guy I bought it from has had it hanging on his wall for years. He answered a classified ad I ran on this Forum. Thank you!!
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By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago
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Re the 500 cfm Holley 2 Bbl carbs, that Ted stated were hard on fuel. I don't know if there is more than one model of them, but I read somewhere that they are intended as "limited rule race carbs", which might explain their thirst for fuel..
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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I believe two 2300 Holley carbs would perform well on a street car. However, multiple carbs are mostly for looks these days and two two barrels isn't all that impressive. As the tests indicate, if you want to go fast get a modern 4V manifold, slap a Holley 750 on it and ride. Two 4Vs is where it's at for a car show hood popper. I prefer Holley carbs. I used them on all my race cars and I understand how to tune them. Do they leak? Yes, they have new gaskets for that. I already have one Holley 465, I would need to buy another. The sideways carb linkage is an issue. It's costly and complicated. I'm not sure two Holley 465s will fit on a 257 manifold with the vacuum secondaries. If it could be made smooth enough, it could be worth the money and effort.
500 CFM Edelbrocks are another option. I don't think they look as vintage with the shiny finish and Edelbrock placards. I'm sure they perform well. They are definitely the easier route to take. Two WCFBs would would look the best, but I would be dealing with expensive 60 year old carbs and there's the TBird hood clearance issue.
The important thing is I have the manifold and that seems to be the hard part. For now, I'll hang it on my wall and decide what to do later this year.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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Turn the two 2300's with the fuel bowls outwards and it would appear as two 4150's under a one piece air cleaner.
The carbs shown are vacuum operated (outboard carbs) from a GM or MOPAR TRI-POWER. .
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Exactly. The carbs in this photo have an extra metering block, but this could be a neat looking setup on a Y Block. Why put 1,000 CFM on an engine that can barely use 600? The throttle response would be good. Mileage decent. An oval 427 style air cleaner would complete the look. There are many ways to go here. I need to read up on WCFBs. They're old and costly, but they are a direct bolt on. A friend told me they used these carbs on old Mercury motors. I assume they are better than tea pots?
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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I need to read up on WCFBs. They're old and costly, but they are a direct bolt on. A friend told me they used these carbs on old Mercury motors. I assume they are better than tea pots?
MERC used the WCFB beginning during the 1956 model run, early H400 and as HP was increased, the WCFB. They also used it on the 1957 MERC LYB 368 4V. LINC used them on their 368 LYB.
The metering blocks(s) on that shown carb has me confused. PROFORM makes a metering block update for the 4V HOLLEY but I have not seen two blocks used together. Maybe TED can explain it whenever he has a free moment. Obviously, I am still stuck in the sixties/seventies and missed that class.
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By Sandbird - 5 Years Ago
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Just a guess,
Maybe it's a spacer to add volume to the float bowl. A 500 cfm 2 barrel has to be awful thirsty at WOT.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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Looks like an adjust-a-jet
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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New thread started.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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Looks like an adjust-a-jet
THANX CHARLIE!
That shook a few cobwebs loose.
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