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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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I am an F-Code newbie but I recently purchased a 57 F-Bird clone and I need some help regarding identifying the parts. I should point out that this car was last touched in 1974 according to the previous owner, who I know well enough to know that he couldn't tell a lie to save his life. What I do know is that the engine and supercharger set up came out of an F-Code passenger car. That being said, I have had some conflicting information and I was hoping that some of you experts could help me out.
Both of these heads have the EDB-D casting numbers on them near the intake manifold ports however the combustion chamber surfaces have casting codes that are not identical. What if anything can you tell me based on the pictures? Are there date codes on these? If so where and how do I read them. What do the markings indicate? What are these heads worth? What is an intake worth, or correct carburetor? What is the whole package worth?
           
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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You only show the date code on one of the heads and that date code is located under the rocker arm shaft. Don’t be alarmed if the date codes are different by a few days as that’ pretty normal. I decipher that particular date as June 10, 1957. The ‘D3’ and ‘D14’ numbers on the lower outer edge of the heads are simply mold identification numbers. I would suggest disassembling the heads and checking them thoroughly for any cracks before considering using them. If selling them, having them crack checked beforehand will also help.
The carburetor is likely the most valuable part of your package if it hasn’t been on fire. Look at the primary side venturi fuel boosters closely for any damage.
Some of the others on this site can likely be a better judge of the value for these parts both as a package and/or individually.
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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I snapped a couple more pictures, I believe this is what you were referring to  
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By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
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If your considering selling any of those parts I have an interest.
Contact me at
Oldmics@Yahoo.com
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By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
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Do those valve springs have internal dampner springs?
Is there a second set of springs inside the outer valve springs?
Cant quite tell from the pictures.
Oldmics
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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87B or 87R on the other head? Hard to make out the last letter but that head based on the first number makes it a 1958 casting. While both heads are the same casting number, they were made about a year apart from each other. Not a biggie as long as both heads prove to be usable.
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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Yes there is a second set of valve springs inside the outer set. They seem to have green paint on them:
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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Does anyone have any input on what this stuff might be worth? I know it always comes down to what someone is willing to pay, but I have heard a bunch of numbers and I don't know what is realistic. Ive heard tell of $5,000+ for the heads alone, Ive also seen them go as low as $4,000. The intake on the other hand I have no idea. I have been offered $1500 and $2,000 but I couldn't say if that is low or about right. And now Ted mentioned that the carburetor might be the most valuable part and now I don't know what to think. I would really appreciate any guidance you guys can offer. I am not trying to inflate the market into outerspace but I also want to get a good value for the parts with out either party being ripped off. Any wisdom you can share would be incredibly helpful!
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By Cliff - 10 Years Ago
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Hi, I just paid $4300.00 for parts like these and I think I got a deal, a complete VR57 setup, however it is missing the fuel pump, the heads have just been rebuilt and the air cleaner is a repo.
Cliff
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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Cliff, what all did you get for the $4,300?
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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Wow! That really is a deal, there was a VR57 Supercharger and carb bonnet that went for $4995 on ebay early this summer, with out the heads, intake, carb, distributor, fuel pump or filter. Granted they don't all go that high. You really did get a deal!!!
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By randyh - 10 Years Ago
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Nice collection of F parts, they all look correct, I am surprised at the date code on one head showing it was made in '58. Is it possibly a service part?
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks, I am surprised as well. I have quite a history working with metal and as far as I can discern there is no evidence of tampering which leaves (in my mind) three possibilities:
1) it is a service part ( but it does not have the "S" that would typically indicating this)
2) It is possible that an operator transposed the 87 (possibly should be a 78)
3) Or..... and this is a shot in the dark.... I have absolutely no clue.
I really would like as much input as possible from the community. I am having a hard time putting my finger on this one. Who are the recognized experts on F-Code cars?
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By Hollow Head - 10 Years Ago
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Frank Rice aka Pegleg and Richard Stuck. Just wait a while and they will answer as they come and see your post... 
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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John Mummert's web site at http://www.ford-y-block.com/ has some insightful information regarding y-block cylinder heads.
John indicates that beginning in May of 1957, FoMoCo y-block cylinder head castings were modified. This was well into the '57 model year production run. The modification was the adding of 'posts' to the heads to increase their strength above the piston.
In the book, Ford Y-Block by James Eickman [1984, MBI Publishing Company] in talking about the '57 early EDB-D production supercharger cylinder heads, Eickman states that they, "...would sometimes fail in competition use. The roof of the combustion chamber would lift as a result of the high combustion pressures".
Based upon J.M.'s information, the following 1957 FoMoCo cylinder heads may or may not be 'posted' DEPENDING UPON WHEN THEY WERE PRODUCED:- ECZ-G casting letters - LARGE letter series [these were used on 272, 292, and some 312s]
- EDB-D and EDB-E (these were used only on 312 supercharged engines]
ALSO, although used in '57 production Ford vehicles, NONE of the following were posted regardless of casting date:
- ECZ-G casting letters - SMALL letter series [these were used on 272, 292, and some 312s, but no 'C', 'D' or 'E' code '57 'Birds]
The small letter ECZ-G heads were cast in Dearborn
See Tim McMaster's web site at http://yblockguy.com/techtips/postedheads.html for clarification on cylinder head 'posting'.
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By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
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I'd have to say they're worth ever bit of 4300. The intake is valuable as well as the carb. Those parts are all unique to the F code cars.
there were only roughly 1200 or so ever sold, 57 years ago!. Nobody knows how many still exist but it is certainly very few real ones.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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F-Code Clone (11/25/2014)
Does anyone have any input on what this stuff might be worth? I know it always comes down to what someone is willing to pay, but I have heard a bunch of numbers and I don't know what is realistic. I would really appreciate any guidance you guys can offer. I am not trying to inflate the market into outerspace but I also want to get a good value for the parts with out either party being ripped off. Any wisdom you can share would be incredibly helpful!
You've got to determine what you've got parts-wise. The original '57 passenger car supercharged engine would not go into the 'Bird you've purchased. Assuming that 'Bird style components were used to install the engine, you've got to determine if they are original Ford replacement components or later non-Ford reproductions.
Presently, (today) for 'F' code 'Bird applications...
- new (reproduction) air cleaner housings are being made and sold,
- reproduction bracketry has been available in the past...some in aluminum, some in cast iron,
- new (reproduction) 'Bird standard transmission and automatic transmission crankshaft front dampers are available for sale
- original 'Bird tach drive distributors can be re-fitted with re-worked distributor plates to mount dual points per original, re-stamped to display the 'Bird S.C. i.d. number (only the suffix letter has to be changed). I don't think that original spec S.C. distributor springs, distributor cams, and vacuum advance chambers are being installed in these clones.
_____________________
What's are the parts worth? To the person who is restoring a true 'F' 'Bird or 'F' passenger car, who is missing these parts...IF the parts ARE original and IF the parts have production dates, it becomes important that the dates on the parts are pre the production date of the car being restored. IF all the info. fits, the parts can bring t-o-p dollar from that buyer.
For someone who is building a clone for nostalgia purposes or sanctioned racing, they still may pay a serious dollar, but not as much as the individual building a numbers-matching museum type car.
_____________________
IF I were looking to sell what you have, I would contact someone who has dealt with this stuff extensively and KNOWS what they're looking at and WHO they might turn to for a sale that would be related to the restoration of a high end car. The following individuals KNOW '57 Ford supercharged engine parts and assemblies.
Don Hyde, Plano, TX Fax: (972) 423-4636
Amos Minter, Dallas, TX email - amosminter@sbcglobal.net
Jim Weatherly, Fullerton, CA phone 714 525-9477
Gil Baumgartner, Fairfield, CA email - gilbaum@inreach.com
Felix Natoli, Perry, NY email - Natolibird@aol.com
Hope this helps . 
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By F-Code Clone - 10 Years Ago
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Just as an FYI I struck a deal to sell the two heads intake and Carb for $7500. I will be delivering the parts to him at about 10am today. With that I have one other person offering $8,000 but I am sticking with the first buyer as he has been helpful to me in the past. All of the parts are in the condition they were in when I pulled them.
I just wanted to let you guys know what they went for, thanks for all of the help!
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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F-Code Clone (11/26/2014)
Thanks, I am surprised as well. I have quite a history working with metal and as far as I can discern there is no evidence of tampering which leaves (in my mind) three possibilities:
1) it is a service part ( but it does not have the "S" that would typically indicating this)
2) It is possible that an operator transposed the 87 (possibly should be a 78)
3) Or..... and this is a shot in the dark.... I have absolutely no clue.
.......
While it’s not impossible that the first two digits are transposed, it’s unlikely. Even transposed, it puts the two heads being made two months apart making at least one of the heads not being a member of the original pair. It’s possible neither head is original to the other ‘F’ parts considering how many of the early supercharged heads initially cracked. For now I’ll go with the 1958 head simply being a replacement head. You might check to see if both heads are posted or not as that may be another clue as the 1957 head could possibly be unposted and the 1958 head is. Don’t let the date codes deter from the fact that both heads are the EDB-D heads and having a significant spread in the date codes is not going to be a detriment to their value.
Here’s a link to an older thread on how to identify posted heads.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost6764.aspx
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By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts (11/27/2014)
Presently, (today) for 'F' code 'Bird applications... - new (reproduction) air cleaner housings are being made and sold, - reproduction bracketry has been available in the past...some in aluminum, some in cast iron, - new (reproduction) 'Bird standard transmission and automatic transmission crankshaft front dampers are available for sale - original 'Bird tach drive distributors can be re-fitted with re-worked distributor plates to mount dual points per original, re-stamped to display the 'Bird S.C. i.d. number (only the suffix letter has to be changed). I don't think that original spec S.C. distributor springs, distributor cams, and vacuum advance chambers are being installed in these clones. _____________________ What's are the parts worth? To the person who is restoring a true 'F' 'Bird or 'F' passenger car, who is missing these parts...IF the parts ARE original and IF the parts have production dates, it becomes important that the dates on the parts are pre the production date of the car being restored. IF all the info. fits, the parts can bring t-o-p dollar from that buyer. Don Hyde, Plano, TX Fax: (972) 423-4636 Amos Minter, Dallas, TX email - amosminter@sbcglobal.netJim Weatherly, Fullerton, CA phone 714 525-9477 Gil Baumgartner, Fairfield, CA email - gilbaum@inreach.comFelix Natoli, Perry, NY email - Natolibird@aol.com Charlie, I'm still making passenger car Brackets from nodular Iron, as well as the pulleys. I also can provide the aluminum Bonnets to order. Don Antilla in Connecticut sells the castings for the T'Bird, while mine are passenger car only. Frank Stubbs in Wa makes (made ) the repo Air cleaners.
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