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Needing new bolts for heads and main caps

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DryLakesRacer
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I like using grade 8 thick washers on head cap screws and studs for sure. I’ve always felt the washer spread out the fastening of both head and main caps. If I can get studs it’s what I prefer. ARP doesn’t have the specifically for my race engine but does sell a length I can use. As the engine has a shaft rocker arm system also I do need to remove about 1/4” from the fine thread end for clearance. ARP doesn’t make it ez to look up individual bolts or studs as I remember.

56 Vic, B'Ville 200 MPH Club Member, So Cal.
KULTULZ
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DryLakesRacer (2/27/2021)


I like using grade 8 thick washers on head cap screws and studs for sure. I’ve always felt the washer spread out the fastening of both head and main caps.


Agreed. I am afraid of the cap screw head galling whatever it is tightening against, especially aluminum, resulting in a false torque value. You would need flat ground washers, not stamped.

Here is another fastener source if it helps anyone - https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/hex-head-screws/




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What’s your opinion of using a flange bolt on heads and cap bolts with washers? The flange bolts from ARP are close to what’s needed and washers will put me within a 1/16 in most cases. Minimal trimming. The Allens Fastners site list the bolts in progressive lengths. I give up trying to find caterpillar bolts as too complicated and time consuming.

Duane
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If they are grade 8 and do not have cirations (sp) on them I don't see a reason not to use them if they fit your needs. For a standard use engine, not racing, a good quality grade 8 should be a viable option if you do not have originals, 

56 Vic, B'Ville 200 MPH Club Member, So Cal.
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grade 8 cat bolts are designed to be flexible and will be better than harder and more strength but do not flex as well. this is especially critical on head bolts with extrerm temp changes. the ford shortrs on ys where more likely to break as shorter bolt has less ability to flex. also cat  grade 8 have large head.
one piece at a time
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I think I have it figured out. I took another stab at the caterpillar parts site and found lengths that will work with minimal trimming and using washers I will go to the Cat dealer next week to see if they have what is listed on the website. I’ll post what I find out . 

Duane
Ted
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KULTULZ (2/27/2021)
Just wondering, are the ARP cap screws considered overkill or are too expensive?

GRADE 5 will not suffice for a stock rebuild?

My ‘overkill’ statement simply comes as a result of the cost of the ARP versus grade 8 bolts being purchased elsewhere.  The key here is the quality of the bolts as bolts being made overseas may not be the actual grade as they are advertised as being.  I do use a lot of ARP fasteners regardless of the cost simply due to the known quality of those fasteners.
 
I attribute most head gasket issues with the Y resulting from the use of grade 5 and grade 6 head bolts.  Those bolts are notorious for not holding their torque for the long haul.  Possibly stretching over time?  While the use of steel shim head gaskets does contribute to the need to re-torque the head bolts after initially running an engine, the stock grade five and six head bolts simply reinforces that need.  I have zero issues with grade eight head bolts in regards to long term head gasket seal so I simply make it a point to use grade eight head bolts on most applications.  Likewise I do not find it necessary to re-torque composition head gaskets when used with grade eight head bolts.



Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


KULTULZ
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My ‘overkill’ statement simply comes as a result of the cost of the ARP versus grade 8 bolts being purchased elsewhere.  The key here is the quality of the bolts as bolts being made overseas may not be the actual grade as they are advertised as being.  I do use a lot of ARP fasteners regardless of the cost simply due to the known quality of those fasteners.


I meant no disrespect if taken.

That's is what I was wondering if the ARP cost was a factor in a simple stock rebuild. And 10-4 on off-shore counterfeit fasteners. The airline industry had that problem some years ago if you remember and it trickled down to automotive, incl FORD.

Now weren't factory fasteners of that period GRADE 5? Just wondering and I agree with the GRADE 8 upgrade.

I can't afford to pi$$ you off as I learn so much from you ... Wink





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KULTULZ (2/28/2021)
I meant no disrespect if taken.
That's is what I was wondering if the ARP cost was a factor in a simple stock rebuild. And 10-4 on off-shore counterfeit fasteners. The airline industry had that problem some years ago if you remember and it trickled down to automotive, incl FORD.
Now weren't factory fasteners of that period GRADE 5? Just wondering and I agree with the GRADE 8 upgrade.
I can't afford to pi$$ you off as I learn so much from you ... Wink

No offense implied or taken.  I’ve come across at least four different head bolt grades during the course of Y production.  The grade eight versions do tend to show up more on the 1963-64 truck engines.  Those I’ll reuse but the rest I treat like ‘torque to yield’ hardware and discard.  Here’s a picture of what I currently have laying loose as far as oem Y head bolts.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/7d17b706-e8bc-4c51-963c-a29a.jpg 


Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


one piece at a time
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Update and what I ended up with. Bolts from the Cat dealer was more problem than I wanted to deal with. They didn’t have what I needed in stock but would order them but would be charged shipping. I went on line and found ARP 12 pt bolts and champherd  washers from Summit Race. FreeShipping.For Dobie and anyone else needing info here is what I bought.  Main bearing bolts 3” # 617-3000 . 2 packs of 5 @$22.99 & 1 pack of 10 washers 1/2”# 200-8533 @$9.99 For the head bolts 1 pack of 5 4 1/2” #645-4500 @$27.99 (there will be 1 extra)2 packs of 5 41/4” #645-4250 @$26.99 (4 extra) 2 packs of 5 of 21/4” # 645-2250 @$17.99 and 2 packs of 10 7/16 washers # 400-8539 @$12.99 along with some assembly lube@$7.99. All totaled $146.92 . the longer bolts were back ordered but everything else got to me in 2 days. There may be some trimming but not much using the .120 thick washers . I hope this helps someone. I spent several hours researching.

Duane


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