|
By mercuni - 12 Years Ago
|
|
A strange on going issue. I have a 292 that I rebuilt several years ago. It runs great, but every year when the temperature drops, my oil pressure goes nuts. When cold ,when fired up, a steady 50lbs. As it starts to warm and I start to drive, the mechanical guage ( 4th one) will start to slam up to 80-100 psi. When it gets up to temp, it settles down to a steady 40-55 lbs. I run 10-30 oil, and have checked the relief valve in the gear type pump. This has gone on for years and have never blown out a filter or anything, but it does have me scratching my head at this time of year.( temp in the 40s). Hmmm
|
|
By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Time to check the gauge itself for proper response to a voltage source. I have found that the anglular orientation of the side that the toothed "gear" doesn't control has to be right before the action is reliably smooth.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
Is the steady 50psi at cold idle?
Is the 80-100psi at idle or cruise?
when it settles down to 40-55psi, is that idle or cruise?
|
|
By mercuni - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Like I said,I am on my 4th gauge. When cold on start up, a steady 50. As it starts to warm,(I am slowly driving away)the gauge will start to rise with rpm. Within a few mins. the needle can creep up to 80,then jump up to 100 and back to 80 a few times. Within a few mins.,as the temp rises, it settles down to a steady 40@ idle to a max of 60 cruising. Seems temp and viscosity are at work ,but how?
|
|
By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Sorry, I didn't take that to mean that you were on the fourth gauge. For some reason, I thought that you were trying to point out which gauge you were looking at within the cluster. Silly, I know. Anyway, does the oil pump pressure relief valve move smoothly within its bore? I'm wondering if it is just tight enough to cause drag until it is warmed up.
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
|
It sounds like the engine is in really good condition clearance wise or the relief valve in the oil pump is 'lazy'. I personally would not be overly concerned about it other than making sure you don't blow the gasket seal out of the oil filter. My '66 Fairlane with the FE consistently hits 120 psi cold at 2000 rpms but settles down to 35-40 psi at the same rpm when hot. That particular engine has no relief valve in the oil pump but I do use the Wix 51515R oil filter to put aside any fears of the filter itself coming apart at the seams.
|
|
By mercuni - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I will take the relief valve out and maybe touch it up with some 1000 grit. Would 5-20 oil be an option? I have been using Wix filters,as I hear that they are quite a bit stronger than most. Many thanks.
|
|
By iowa fords - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I did a search but did not find what I was looking for. What it the Wix part # for oil filter for a 292
|
|
By Talkwrench - 12 Years Ago
|
|
ARE you in a cold climate? Im with Ted so long as it comes down as the oil gets hot I think your fine.. I wish mine was that good, both my Y block and Flathead lose oil pressure as the oil gets hot and at idle I barely have any !
|
|
By speedpro56 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Do not use a lower weight oil. Stick with 5w40 or 10w40. using ?w20 your asking for cam failure and I would not be using 30w either unless it has enough zinc to stop cam and lifter wear.
|
|
By mercuni - 12 Years Ago
|
|
After hearing from you all,I feel that I can live with the situation. My real concern is the hammering up and down that it does for a short time. The only casualties are 3 cheap gauges .They will only put up with it for so long. Got a good SW in now. Thanks again.
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
I had a nice Sun 270° sweep 80 lb gauge in my Fairlane which became ‘sprung’ as a result of the high cold oil pressure. Replaced it with a Stewart Warner 200 lb. gauge and life has been good since. Even my ’55 Customline with its 272 will bump 70 lbs during cold weather starts with 10W-40 oil. The 272 still bumps the 50 lb. mark when hot and running down the road.
..
..
Gary is spot on regarding the oil. If unsure about the zinc content in the oil, just be sure you’re using an oil with 40 or more in the weight classification (ie. 10W-40). Regarding the high oil pressure when cold, it does sound like a sticking oil pump relief valve. The problem could be with either the slide valve or the bore in which it resides so removing the pump would be the recommended course of action so that both areas can be examined closely.
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
|
iowa fords (12/4/2013)
..... What it the Wix part # for oil filter for a 292
The standard Wix spin on filter for the 1957 – 1980’s Ford V8’s is #51515 while the heavier canned filter rated for higher oil pressure is #51515R.
|
|
By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
You mention a couple of things as you go along, and with others responces it seems that you may be using an electronic guage and my opinion would be that is like using no guage at all as for oil I only use S/W mechanical guages. As for oil FORD Recommenede SAE-20-20W above +32 degrees F with SAE 10-10W +32 degrees F to -10 degrees F and below -10 degrees F SAE-5W and every FORD Mechanic that I ever knew back in the day when these were every where you looked always said NOT TO USE THICK OIL IN THEM. We used 30W when we ran them on the Dirt Tracks in the Mid-West and it worked just fine because they ran hotter. I do use 10W30 myself, however it is Brad Penn Racing and has the Zink addative in it. Back to your problem, you also mentioned occasional hammering and between the oil pressure problem and the hammering I would have to believe that you have a cam bearing doing the old occasional spin trick. If you really want to find out with out breaking it down just put some thick oil in it and you should know within a few miles, however I would recommend pulling the cam and take a look see.
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I'm with Ted, don't run below 40w. The old engines have the clearances that like thicker oils. Oil technology has moved on so much in 60 years with multi grade oils and what Ford recommended back then was the compromise that was made with mono grade oil. It is still a compromise now just not as much, as the perfect oil would not change viscosity when the temperature changed. I run 20w-60 but we never see freezing here and that particular oil has 1610ppm zinc content. If it got colder here I would run an oil with a lower starting number. Remember even when it is below freezing in winter over there, that oil with a low end number is still extremely thin when your up to running temp at 180F.
|
|
By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
|
You are correct that the FORD recommendation was mono or MM Grade oil, however after running "Y"'s hard on short tracks I remmember that the guys running thick oil seemed to squeeze and burn the bearings out and soon there after a rod where as with 30W we Did not lose engine one in the six years thay I ran them before going to FE's with the Later Model Body Styles, But as they Say "To each His own"
Tom
|
|
By 62f250 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I run straight 30 weight oil in my station wagon that during the summer months drive almost daily and have no troubles 65 psi cold and 20 or so hot idling. I was always told sae 30 over 30 degrees and sae 20 under 30 degrees
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
I can see where you are coming from with the rod bearings going under racing conditions. I do believe the Y pushes a lot of oil up the top end and with the high revs and thicker oil they were probably getting oil starvation as it couldn't get back down quick enough. I guess that's why 427FE's didn't even have hydraulic lifters to save as much oil for the bottom end as possible.
Since this topic came up I've asked some of the older Y guys what they ran in the early years as mono grades were before my time. 30w and 40w was what was used here as there was no need for anything lighter with our climate. We would have to drive 2500 miles to see below freezing weather here, and that's only in winter. I know in the US even in the warmer spots it is not much of a drive to see below freezing and oil that can cope with that is needed. For many years the standard oil viscosity here was 20w-50, there was thinner oils but they were usually the cheap junk brands. We're spoilt for choice to suit the application now, even better than you have from what I've seen. The narrow viscosity oils here are still mostly the cheaper end low quality oil.
I think a lot of it comes down what your maximum engine revs are going to be as well, the higher the revs the thinner the oil to counter drain back issues. My car is stock and wouldn't see anything past about 4500rpm on the rare occasion for a short period of time and a lot of the guys with the Y's I think do a lot less than that and would gain from the broader viscosity range.
I do often see adds for vehicles in the US saying "engine rebuilt at 100000 miles" or less in a lot of cases and wonder why it should need it as I would expect double the mileage from the same vehicle before thinking about a rebuild. That is the sort of thing that you don't usually see here, we traditionally get good mileage out of our motors in most cases. Maybe it is just lack of servicing in those.
|
|
By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Interesting, Good oils come in most weights here and the same for Junk oils with the biggest problem is knowing who is telling the truth on Quality. Most vehicles in the States did not see that 100,000 mark with out repair as the average person back in the day changed their spark plugs as often as their socks, but only looked at the ignition when it ran really bad or not at all and usually were dumping gas thru the motors washing everything out, and an oil change was a once a year thing just before the vacation trip. Todays cars with all the electronics and fuel injection can see between 200K and 300K with out too much trouble, my 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan turned 285K last week however I change the oil & filter every 3000 mi. Also back in the day you could always buy a rust bucket in the Mid-west with 70 to 80K on it and a cream puff from the South West with equal or more miles and a bad motor and with a swap come out with a pretty decent car. Now and then you could find something that the owner was smart enough and well off enough to have taken care of it and got a good ride with higher miles but that was not all that often. Thanks for the reply, my youngest Son has been to your Country and really likes it a lot.
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
The mileage you are mentioning is more what I would expect out of a vehicle. I might be getting a skewed view of things, as when I'm over there looking for transport it is in the lower price brackets as I'm not looking to tie up too much money in a temporary vehicle. Possibly a lot of those vehicles don't get the oil checked until the light comes on. If I see engine rebuilt in the add I instantly think it hasn't been looked after or it has been worked very hard.
These days it is a different story, there are good light weight oils as well that need to cater for more modern engines that can't handle the heavy weights but you wont see a junk oil with a wide viscosity range like 5w-50 or 10w-60
Last time I was there in 2010 I got an 1994 Suburban (well maintained but the paint was a bit cooked) and a travel trailer to tour around with. I ran Mobile-1 10w 40 in that and did the oil changes every 3000 miles. I ran Mobile-1 as it is an available brand I knew (normally available as 5w-30 or 5w-50 here) and is considered quite a good oil but expensive here. I brought a couple containers back as it was a fraction of the price of the Mobile-1 oils we have here and ran it in my wife's car. I was a bit disappointed with it, the oil level dropped quickly and didn't compare to the Mobile-1 here. I think I'll have to look into it a bit more for next year when we're over.
|
|
By sprink88 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Being that on oil too. How about running 30w break in oil 100% of the time? Enough zinc? I only really have 4-5 months of drive time here in MN
|
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I wouldn't run break in oil all the time. Too much zddp is about as bad as too little. A normal single viscosity like 30w should have just what you need.
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
What would you consider as too much?
|
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I don't have a number. If anyone here knows, it's Ted. As a general rule, any dual viscosity 40 or higher (10w40, 20w50, etc) and any single viscosity is already sufficient. I wouldn't add anything to it. If you use a dual viscosity 30 and lower (10w30, 5w20, etc) you will need an additive. If there is ever any doubt about an oil, ask the manufacturer which of their oils they recommend for a flat tappet engine.
|
|
By yblock - 12 Years Ago
|
Ceck this sight Speed talk. diesel lube oil wear test results.this test includes gas engine oils.some quotes 5-20castrol gtx conventional
95543psi thresh hold
castrol edge titaniam 95717 5W30
818 ppmzink
phos 883ppm
moley 90ppm
titanium44ppm
thay also saymodern low zink oilsCAN BE USED SAFELY WITHFLAT TAPPETCAMS,EVEN WITH ENGINES WITH RADICAL CAMS AND SPRING PRESSURE. THER IS SOME 30 PAGES OF TESTS OF ALL OILS AVAIL IN THE US. THOSE WITH HIGH OILPRESURE,100PSI WOULD BE WISE TO CONSIDER5W30. IN TODAYS OILS THER IS NO NEED FOR HIGH OIL PRESSURE.1 COLD MORNIG YOU WILLBLOW THE SEAL ON MOST SPINONS,AS WELL AS THE GASKET ON THE ADAPTOR FOR THE SPIN ON
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
|
charliemccraney (12/14/2013)
I wouldn't run break in oil all the time. Too much zddp is about as bad as too little. A normal single viscosity like 30w should have just what you need.
ian57tbird (12/15/2013)
What would you consider as too much?
The high end amount of zinc in the oil for a daily driver is around 1350 ppm. Running much more than this for extended periods of time contributes to what is called ‘zinc overloading’ which then leads to pitting of the camshaft lobes.
|
|
By yblock - 12 Years Ago
|
|
If any one would like to read acouple of intro pages on lab and wear tests send me your email and i will send some intro info that will wet your interest. ct1940@shaw.ca att cliff
|