|
By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
|
More like questions. Okay, I have a 292 from 1959. It has the original road draft tube installed into the valley cover, original 2100 two barrel carburetor from 59, and not many modifications. Here are a few photos:
Now, from what I understand, the pcv valve needs to go into the valley cover where the road draft goes into and somehow hook into the carb. What would I need to buy / modify to accept a pcv system? And does that small oval cover plate near the oil pan and fuel pump do anything?
|
|
By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
|
The oval cover plate is where the earlier road draught tube and filter bolted on.
There are a hundred posts on here re. pcv valve..
Go to 'search' next to 'home' at top right of page, click and select 'advanced search'
put in - pcv valve - then select 'using all keywords'.
26 pages of hits, hope you have some time on your hands 
.
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
|
As slick56 mentions, the search function will bring up quite a bit on PCV valve installations. Here are a few links to get you started. The search function will bring up more. Blocking off the road draft tube Crankcase evacuation Finned valley pan and PCV valve installation Installation of PCV valve into the top of the block Installation of PCV valve at top and rear of block 2 Modifying valve covers for PCV valve installation Valley pan PCV valve installation Valve cover baffle for PCV valve Why a PCV valve system? . And here are pictures of a couple of pcv valve installations that were performed recently. This is reasonably cut and dried if you’re already using the valley cover that accommodates the rear road draft tube. Simply knock down the stud boss in the center of the hole and install the appropriate sized rubber grommet. The PCV valves I’ve been using lately for the Y conversions are the Microgard PCV-202 or Fram FV197. The hose for the valve simply hooks to the back of the carb or to a port in a spacer under the carb.  
|
|
By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
|
|
If you don't have a place to hook it up to at the carb or spacer you can drill and tap for a fitting under the car in the maniifold.Do not hook it up at the back of the intake just because there is a vacuum fitting there.You will lean out the back cylinders.Needs to be as close to centre as possible.Makes a big difference as far as fumes(gassy smell) in the garage when the car sits for awhile and its much cleaner than the fumes just escaping to the air.
|
|
By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
|
|
oldcarmark (10/27/2013)
If you don't have a place to hook it up to at the carb or spacer you can drill and tap for a fitting under the car in the maniifold.Do not hook it up at the back of the intake just because there is a vacuum fitting there.You will lean out the back cylinders.Needs to be as close to centre as possible.Makes a big difference as far as fumes(gassy smell) in the garage when the car sits for awhile and its much cleaner than the fumes just escaping to the air.
Is the port in front of the carb that the vacuum wipers connect to a usable port?
|
|
By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
|
'59Edsel (10/27/2013)
oldcarmark (10/27/2013)
If you don't have a place to hook it up to at the carb or spacer you can drill and tap for a fitting under the car in the maniifold.Do not hook it up at the back of the intake just because there is a vacuum fitting there.You will lean out the back cylinders.Needs to be as close to centre as possible.Makes a big difference as far as fumes(gassy smell) in the garage when the car sits for awhile and its much cleaner than the fumes just escaping to the air.Is the port in front of the carb that the vacuum wipers connect to a usable port? I would think so.Close enough to centre. If you want a suugestion for a starting point for a PCV valve I used one for a 302 Ford initially.Too much airflow so I went to one for a 4 cylinder which worked very well.You can also use a restrictor in the line to cut down the airflow.Trial and error.You will notice too much airflow at idle.Too lean a mixture. .
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
|
oldcarmark (10/27/2013)
[quote][b]
If you want a suugestion for a starting point for a PCV valve I used one for a 302 Ford initially. Too much airflow so I went to one for a 4 cylinder which worked very well.
What's confuses the matter is the Microgard PCV-202 that Ted suggests is list for any from a 302 Ford all the way up to a 460 and everything in between... 
|
|
By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
|
|
The Master Cylinder (10/27/2013)
[quote]oldcarmark (10/27/2013)
[quote][b]
If you want a suugestion for a starting point for a PCV valve I used one for a 302 Ford initially. Too much airflow so I went to one for a 4 cylinder which worked very well.
What's confuses the matter is the Microgard PCV-202 that Ted suggests is list for any from a 302 Ford all the way up to a 460 and everything in between... [/quote]
Like I said its trial and error.What works on one engine may not work on another.Like everything else fuel related there are variables like camshaft,timing,etc.I found with my stock engine the 302 valve flowed too much air.The idle was terrible.The 4 cylinder one has a smaller size passageway.You can also restrict the airflow as I mentioned if its too lean.The PCV valve is just a flow control depending on vacuum and internal size.
|
|
By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Awesome guys, this helps me a lot. And thanks for all of the links for me to read up on. I wonder if there is any type of adapter I can install into the road draft hole that allows me to mount the pcv valve without modifying the current mounting surface. Maybe I could get a junk road draft tube support (The part that screws into the valley cover) and weld some pipe to the opening and drill and tap that instead. Sound reasonable?
|
|
By PWH42 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Yes,that would work.For the proper PCV valve,go to a parts store and get a valve for a 64 F-100 truck with a 292 engine.I know NAPA has them and probably most other stores do also.That port in front of your carb is just about where the original on the 64 pickup was mounted.
|
|
By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Awesome. Now, since my vacuum wipers are connected to it at the moment, would it be a problem it I had both the pvc valve and wipers connected to that one port at the same time?
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
oldcarmark (10/28/2013)
The Master Cylinder (10/27/2013)
[quote]oldcarmark (10/27/2013)
[quote][b]
If you want a suugestion for a starting point for a PCV valve I used one for a 302 Ford initially. Too much airflow so I went to one for a 4 cylinder which worked very well.
What's confuses the matter is the Microgard PCV-202 that Ted suggests is list for any from a 302 Ford all the way up to a 460 and everything in between... [/quote]
Like I said its trial and error.What works on one engine may not work on another.Like everything else fuel related there are variables like camshaft,timing,etc.I found with my stock engine the 302 valve flowed too much air.The idle was terrible.The 4 cylinder one has a smaller size passageway.You can also restrict the airflow as I mentioned if its too lean.The PCV valve is just a flow control depending on vacuum and internal size.
Mark, what I was referring to is the same PCV valve is used in such a wide range of engine sizes, not that the one Ted suggested would not work on a 292.
|
|
By stuey - 12 Years Ago
|
i think it was the guys from Finland (Hollow heads) spotted this one
http://mewagner.com/?page_id=444
stuey
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Why do you want a PCV valve?
|
|
By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I understand the want / need for a PCV - but why would someone consider a US$129 priced "dual path" version?
|
|
By stuey - 12 Years Ago
|
i don't know maybe its techy, adjustable its bright and shiny.....
now tell me something why do some PCV valves have two hose barbs?
stuey
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
|
ian57tbird (10/28/2013)
Why do you want a PCV valve?
Here are some good reasons;
• Properly ventilates crankcase, resulting in cleaner oil and cleaner engine internals
• Reduces emissions
• Reduces moisture and acidic vapors in your engine’s crankcase
|
|
By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
|
|
ian57tbird (10/28/2013)
Why do you want a PCV valve?
Have you ever noticed that gas fume smell in your garage when the car has been sitting enclosed for any length of time?Thats from the open crankcase having the Road Draft Tube.Install a PCV and close off the opening where the Draft Tube was(or still is for appearance only blocked off) and that smell is gone.Just one of several reasons for installing one.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
|
It would be interesting to find out if that expensive valve is of any benefit. How would you quantify that in order to test it against other off-the-shelf valves? How do you know that you have the "right" pcv valve?
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I only thought they were for emissions. I don't have problems with fuel smell. How does it achieve a cleaner crankcase?
|
|
By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago
|
Although expensive, that Wagner adjustable PCV valve is an interesting solution. I expect that they don't sell enough to allow for huge profits. I think that it is a clever idea and would not blame a person for investing in one. The performance-enhanced daily driver might actually benefit from using this. It would allow one to actually control the flow and mitigate unintended vacuum loss due to an unfortunate PCV choice for a given engine carb and cam arrangement. If you did go this route, you might want to also get a rebuild kit while it's available.
And, yes, a properly-engineered PCV valve will keep the crankcase and oil cleaner. Even more effectively than a road draft tube. A poorly-engineered PCV valve choice will possibly cause either poor crankcase scavenging, or, excessive vacuum loss that can lead to idle and/or off-idle issues.
|
|
By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I'm not going to change mine as it looks original and the car doesn't do many miles each year, so if I have to change oil a little more often it is no bid deal for me. I still want to ask the question to you guys that have done the conversion, did you notice a definite change in the cleanliness of your oil?
|
|
By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
|
|
IAN, YES.
|
|
By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Any insight on connecting the vacuum end of the pcv onto the same vacuum line feeding my vacuum wiper setup?
|
|
By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I'd probably put a check valve on the wiper line anyway. You absolutely do not want ethanol fumes to find their way to the vacuum wipers. Nor to brakes for that matter. Check valves help to keep condensing vapors from destroying things that are less than compatable with today's fuels.
|
|
By unibody madness - 12 Years Ago
|
Sorry in advance for the newbie questions. It was suggested to me that the draft tube could be vented via a bung, welded into my exhaust pipe, near the manifold, since it was a pre smog vehicle.
This would help with the vacuum. Is this viable? would the exhaust gases be hot enough to burn off the vapors? Legal? If so would using the pcv be advised?
John
|
|
By DryLakesRacer - 12 Years Ago
|
Unibody...What you describe is a drag racing idea to evacuate the engine to run in a vacuum for "free". You see it used a lot where racers do not want to install a true vacuum pump costing the extra HP. You need to install a A.I.R. oneway valve in the system to prevent exhaust gases from entering the engine. I had one on for years prior to the pump. I have never heard of anyone using one on a street engine.
A PVC system is for emissions which actually helps your engine compartment clean and can help with engine leaks also. I installed aftermarket ones in the 60's in when California mandated them. No matter the car brand an AC unit worked the best. We ruined a lot of valve covers and air cleaners with putting holes in them. You always needed to turn out the idle mixture screws sometimes a lot depending on the condition of the engine.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
|
What I understand is that the race system does not function at low (street) engine speeds. So it will do nothing for you.
|
|
By DryLakesRacer - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Charlie..I agree you need a lot of exhaust flow to make that style of pan-a-vac system work. That why it was only used in racing and the tube welded in the exhaust header had to be done correctly. The belt driven vacuum pump system worked all the way thru the RPM range. There are still skeptics on it's use but I'm not one of them....JD
|
|
By unibody madness - 12 Years Ago
|
Fair enough, thanks for the responses.
Now would a pcv valve correctly placed in the valley pan down draft tube location be superior, or would this set up work better coming off the valve cover? I ask because i have both a modern down draft tube adapter, a down draft tube, and a hole in one of my valve covers. I could even y a combo of both if called for. I plan on making my 61 unibody truck my daily driver, and would like it to run as clean as possible crank wise.
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
The PCV valve location and the air inlet to the crankcase for the PCV valve supply air needs to be separated. If the crankcase air inlet is going to be the original oil fill tube at the front of the valley cover, then putting the PCV valve at the rear of the valley cover is the logical and simple location for most Y's. Here’s a past link touching on the air flow path for a PCV valve.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost25383.aspx
Performing an advanced search on this site using ‘PCV valve’ and selecting ‘all terms’ will bring up more.
|
|
By DryLakesRacer - 12 Years Ago
|
I hate to point this out but if you will notice a million of "C" brand GM engines their PCV valve was pushed into a rubber gromment in one rocker cover going to a place under the carband the opposite rocker cover had a hose that went to the side of the air filter with a small "brillo" looking filter mounted inside. Others had the hose entering between the carb air filter and the carb. When this all happened the oil filler tube disappeared and an additional sealing twist cap went on the rocker cover for that purpose.
Silly as it may seem filtered air is a must to keep things in working order. How many of you have noticed the automatic choke air tube that goes under the intake manifold enteres in the side of the teapot carb used filtered air? When I change to a Carter WCBB or a Rochester 4GC I make sure the new tube goes into tha carb air filter adapter plate to continue this practice...JD
|
|
By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Almost all the GM stuff did the same thing as Drylakes posted. And it did work. Filtered air is a must, you wouldn't really want to dump dirt in the crankcase.
|
|
By '59Edsel - 12 Years Ago
|
Here is a quick video of my PCV setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqgyyF16Go8
I connected two old draft tube "housings" together and put a grommet into one, the grommet holds the PCV valve and that in turn connects to the vacuum port in front of the carb. It's in line with the vacuum wipers, so I have a check valve to keep anything from entering the vacuum wiper pump. The engine draws fresh air in from the oil fill tube.
|
|
By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago
|
The GM system described earlier - and the Ford versions of the later era - used clean ventilation intake air pulled through the carburetor air cleaner by the PCV valve. Because the amount of air you would use to PCV ventilate can easily be overpowered by blowby of an older engine - the described intake system allows reverse flow back toward the carburetor. On our older systems this "overflow" would be pushed back out the oil filler tube.
This older picture of the Greenbird shows a "homemade" fitting used with a '64 292 PCV fitted (in the proper check valve direction) with hoses grommets and clamps. It also had to be fitted with an orifice, as its original installation was into a port of the manifold that incorporated small holes into both chambers of the "cross H" manifold.
|