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By timmy4 - 11 Years Ago
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I got my car on the road under historical plates and a friend drives me around to car shows. When I rebuilt the engine I put a Teflon seal in the engine not a rope seal and recently it started leaking has a 6 inch spot under it. The crank shaft where the seal rides was clean and smooth.
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By Talkwrench - 11 Years Ago
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You mean neoprene seal? SHouldn't leak that much, after years they do and we seem to live with it if not too bad. Someone will put up a link to Teds tech info on how to do the rear main. Hopefully a simple fix.
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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292 or a 312? 312’s seem to be problematic in getting the rear seal area to the point where they are drip free when using the rope type seals. With that being said, not all oil leaks are from the seal itself but can also be associated with the side seals on the seal retainer or even at the threads holding the two bolts that fasten the oil pan to the seal retainer. . Here’s the link to the rear seal installation instructions that were originally published in the Y-Block Magazine. http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2008/09/10/neoprene-rear-seal-installation-for-the-y-and-others/
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By Jeff - 11 Years Ago
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I had replaced my original rope seal with a Best 2 piece neoprene seal in my '56 292. This is a 60K original car so the work to the engine is being done in the car. The leak is back and after doing some research I'm in the process of replacing it again, this time with Best graphite rope seal. My thoughts are that since I am not able to properly prepare the crankshaft surface the neoprene seal failed due to corrosion/roughness on the journal. Hopefully the rope seal will accommodate these imperfections.
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By Talkwrench - 11 Years Ago
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Im glad Im not the only one its happened too Jeff. I have my doubts if the rope seal will be better ..How rough do you think the crankshaft is?? Look forward to your report when done.
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By Cactus - 11 Years Ago
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I wish I had the answer to this problem as I thought I had the answer this year. But, sorry to say when I thought I had a tight motor I am now finding large puddles under the car after short drives. After a number of years and what seems like millions of dollars I am about ready to give up. I probably will drive this thing until it blows and regroup. Thinking about a 347 stroker for my car, and I know that I may not be satisfied with it but at least it won't cover the world with oil. Y-block is becoming a dirty world in my household.
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By gekko13 - 11 Years Ago
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Jan, 347's have rear main seals too. If they are not installed properly or just worn out, they leak. Don't give up on the "Y-block", they can be house broken.
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By Dobie Gillis - 11 Years Ago
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If you don't have a PCV system you might consider rigging one up. They reduce oil leaks considerably.
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By Cactus - 11 Years Ago
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I have a PCV installed and even tried it with a set of valve covers with breathers. Nothing changed.
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By Cactus - 11 Years Ago
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I don't think my PCV was working right initially and maybe I built up to much pressure and screwed up the seal. I am clutching at straws here but realistically I am not giving up on this thing. It runs great, has a lot of power, but it bleeds.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 11 Years Ago
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I just don't know that there ever is going to be a "good" rope seal for this application. Even with high tech materials you seldom ever find a rope material rated for the number of "feet per minute" present at the crank journal surface. When engineers use this braided rope for a seal - its usually on a packing that has to be preloaded - and sometimes repeatedly preloaded. The runout allowance is not great.
Ted's observation that you have to be pretty sure all of the other potential leak points are taken care of has a lot of merit.
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By The Master Cylinder - 11 Years Ago
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GREENBIRD56 (9/26/2013)
When engineers use this braided rope for a seal - its usually on a packing that has to be preloaded - and sometimes repeatedly preloaded. The runout allowance is not great.
Haha, I never correlated the two before but yes I have seen plenty of "packing that has to be preloaded" on the steam turbines and pumps at work... One of our duties while "doing our rounds" was to "take up on the packing" on the pumps.
Too bad you can't "take up on the packing" on a Y-Block 
850 lb. Steam turbine.
Thanks for the memory, Steve
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By carl - 11 Years Ago
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You are just about making me home sick for work,i had 4 years in the Navy and 30 years working in a steam plants,asbestos has reared its ugly head yet Carl
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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When I rebuilt my 292 3 years ago I used the "Best" Neoprene seals and Ted's instructions and guess what?It still leaks.I would be interested in hearing about anyones experience with these new Graphite rope seals from Best.Is there anyone out there who's Y-Block does NOT drip at least a few drops?
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By Y block Billy - 11 Years Ago
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I have many that dont leak a drop, the ones that did I found was pinholes in the breather pipe and stripped oil pan bolts in the rear seal retainer, fixed those and I dont know of any that leak now out of 6 that I have running the roads and woods.
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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Y block Billy (9/26/2013)
I have many that dont leak a drop, the ones that did I found was pinholes in the breather pipe and stripped oil pan bolts in the rear seal retainer, fixed those and I dont know of any that leak now out of 6 that I have running the roads and woods.
And you have never put a rear main seal in any of these?
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By ian57tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Is there any difference with the Y and Windsor or Cleveland rear mains that would cause them to leak? I never had any problems with rope seals in the latter two when I packed them in well. I've not dealt with the Y rear main and mine leaves a small spot, but nothing I would pull the motor out for.
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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ian57tbird (9/26/2013)
Is there any difference with the Y and Windsor or Cleveland rear mains that would cause them to leak? I never had any problems with rope seals in the latter two when I packed them in well. I've not dealt with the Y rear main and mine leaves a small spot, but nothing I would pull the motor out for.
For one thing the newer Ford engines DON'T use seals on the side of the cap.Most often the repair for the rear main(on the newer motors) was to replace it with a neoprene type because it was easier to install with the engine in the car.The Y was a problem leaker from the start.Just not a good design.One repair I heard about was slipping a piece of Piano Wire behind the rope type to force it tighter against the crank.This was for a used motor repair.
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By Jeff - 11 Years Ago
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I finally got the rope seal installed. The graphite seal is interesting material and I feel that it will do the trick although it wasn't an easy task. I'm still putting the car back together and I just ordered a new radiator so it will be a week or so before I will be able to fire the engine. I'll keep you informed.
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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Cactus (9/26/2013)
I wish I had the answer to this problem as I thought I had the answer this year. But, sorry to say when I thought I had a tight motor I am now finding large puddles under the car after short drives. After a number of years and what seems like millions of dollars I am about ready to give up. I probably will drive this thing until it blows and regroup. .....292 or 312? . As I only use neoprene seals in the 292 Y builds and have had very good and positive results with them, I haven’t had to resort to using the available graphite or Teflon rope style of seals in those particular engines. Those 292’s built with the readily available ‘black’ neoprene rear seals have been totally clean and devoid of rear seal leaks. But lots of care goes into making sure that the remaining ‘sore’ spots at the back of the engine are also sealed up. . Best Gasket has just introduced an improved neoprene seal for the 312 engines which has the same hardness as the 292 seal so that will hopefully take care of the seal wear issues that were taking place with the previously available ‘orange’ seal. That orange seal would initially be okay for about 1500-2000 miles and then it would start to leak. Close examination of the orange seals when removed showed that the material was being slowly worn away simply due to the softness of the material. . I recently used a graphite rear seal on a Flathead V8 build and was pleasantly surprised that there was absolutely no oil present at the rear of that engine after some hard running. And that engine actually has the lower half of the seal in the groove at the oil pan rather than in a rear main cap or separate seal retainer which makes that engine even more apt to leak oil if all is not right. . In installing the graphite seals on those engines that have to use them, I work the seal into the groove with a larger socket and then cut off the seal ends so they protrude above the‘flats’ about 1/32” on all four ends. Using a tongue depressor or similar thin and stiff material and a razor blade permits a nice straight cut on the seal ends while allowing for that desired amount of protrusion to be in place. When the seals halves are mated to each other, those protrusions insure that there are no gaps at the seal ends. . As a side note, I’m told that soaking the rope seals in oil prior to installing them also helps.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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Another thing that may be happening with the rubber seals is people follow the instructions for the rope seal and trim any protrusion and you do not want to do this.
This would be a good topic for a book. I wonder if it will be in the new one.
I haven't had any issues with a 292, either and I actually did start to trim the first one because I didn't know any better. Even so, it was used for over 10k miles without a leak.
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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AH YES, it is always "Blame it on the rear main". There are other areas that always show up at the same location as when the main leaks so you may want to check the freeze type plug at the rear of the cam shaft for a leak, and a more common one is the seal between the oil filter adapter and the block as the original was paper and the specs said to coat it with oil before installing and yet the replacements are neopreme and will slip and not hold 100% if not dry when installed giving you an oil leak. And a Biggie that most miss is the valley pan as the new sets supply a neopreme for there also and they are known to leak unless you find an original cork like FORD put in them, I get mine from Hill's Thunderbird Center 1-800-562-1955. #1 Permatex should be used with the cork Valley pan gasket. The "Y"'s with the rear main leaks were the 239's and 256's and I personally have only had one 292 that ever leaked and it was actually squeased out by too heavy of an oil used by some old guy back in the '60's that listened to some street fool that told him to use a motor honey product. Good luck with it, and let everyone know what you find.
312T85Bird
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By timmy4 - 11 Years Ago
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Since my engine is in my car could the seal be replaced without pulling the engine on a 272 engine?
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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Here we go again putting the Blame on the rear main seal. The History of the rear main leak was with the Eraly "Y" 239's and 256 and so many people will look at a Y and say it is a 312, and I am sure that from time to time a seal is not installed correctly in a 312 and will leak HOWEVER. Look at the usual fault of a leak at the rear of the motor (1.) The original oil filter adapter seal was paper and required a thin coat of oil upon application where as the replacements are not paper and if you lube them upon install there is a 98% chance that they will leak and pond at the rear around the area of the rear main. (2.) The valley pan gasket was originally good quality cork and the replacements in the kits are the junk neopreme and they have a History of leaking and the oil will run down the rear of the motor (Very Common) (3.) the least likely but still possible is the expansion plug at the rear of the camshaft. The most unlikely IF Installed Correctly would be the rear main seal on a 312 or late 292.
312T85Bird
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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Yes there are very good tool kits available for just that. hardest part is dropping the pan.
312T85Bird
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By timmy4 - 11 Years Ago
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Where can I get the special tools and are they just called rear main seal tools?
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By The Master Cylinder - 11 Years Ago
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timmy4 (11/1/2013)
Where can I get the special tools and are they just called rear main seal tools?
Timmy, here is one on ebay that I have used in the past with success. I'm sure there are other brands/places to buy them also. Google is your friend...
On the subject of Rear Mains, when I put my current 312 together I used the Best Gasket neoprene seal with the Billet Aluminum Retainer from T-Bird products. Billet Seal Retainer Everything was squeaky clean. I didn't use the side seals. I used a pressurized can of silicone to fill the sides of the retainer after it was installed. I put a small amount of copper RTV where the retainer meets the block. I pressurized it in until I saw it come out the corners at the bottom (small bezels where machined into the retainer) and sides of the retainer and didn't wipe off the excess. I trimmed the excess off when dry. Haven't had any problems... yet. I'm NOT proposing anyone else do it this way, It's just the way I did it this last time because I was tired of seals weaping after doing it the "normal" way. Haven't had any problems... yet.
Also ensure you seal the retainer bolts and the pan bolts/studs that go through the retainer.
As a side note I still have some Best Gasket Real Asbestos Rear main seals I got from Red's back in 2001 in my stash, "just in case" ha!
Just my opinion and it's worth about how much you paid me for it...
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By The Master Cylinder - 11 Years Ago
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Sorry Timmy, I meant to add the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-D-Tools-492-Upper-Rear-Main-Oil-Seal-Remover-Installer-NEW-USA-/360777944403?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item54000a8d53&vxp=mtr
I hate it when people refer you to something but don't include the link and there I go and do it... Good luck on your seal, it's not a fun job while lying on your back.
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By 312T85Bird - 11 Years Ago
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Call 1-800-234-0221 (U.S.A.) Apex Tool Group,LLC Ask for part # KDS492 The most complete you will ever find and be sure to ask that they send seperate instructions.
312T85Bird
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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I didn't use the side seals. I used a pressurized can of silicone to fill the sides of the retainer after it was installed. I put a small amount of copper RTV where the retainer meets the block. I pressurized it in until I saw it come out the corners at the bottom (small bezels where machined into the retainer) and sides of the retainer and didn't wipe off the excess. I trimmed the excess off when dry.
The fellow that did the work on my engine says he doesn't use the side seals any more either. He uses "the right stuff" which comes in a calking type cartridge and can be injected under pressure. Of course he told me this after I had already installed the side seals as per Ted's instructions. I actually went through two sets of side seals. I found that the nails became caught up on the lower 1/4 inch of the seal and compressed them below the surface of the seal retainer. When I removed them I could see where the nail had damaged the seal. It took me a few attempts to get the nails in without compressing the seals. Here's hoping!
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By timmy4 - 11 Years Ago
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where can I get the non rope seals that work well thanks
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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lyonroad (11/2/2013)
I didn't use the side seals. I used a pressurized can of silicone to fill the sides of the retainer after it was installed. I put a small amount of copper RTV where the retainer meets the block. I pressurized it in until I saw it come out the corners at the bottom (small bezels where machined into the retainer) and sides of the retainer and didn't wipe off the excess. I trimmed the excess off when dry.
The fellow that did the work on my engine says he doesn't use the side seals any more either. He uses "the right stuff" which comes in a calking type cartridge and can be injected under pressure. Of course he told me this after I had already installed the side seals as per Ted's instructions. I actually went through two sets of side seals. I found that the nails became caught up on the lower 1/4 inch of the seal and compressed them below the surface of the seal retainer. When I removed them I could see where the nail had damaged the seal. It took me a few attempts to get the nails in without compressing the seals. Here's hoping!
Hey Mark! Where can you purchase "the right stuff"?What seals did he use in your motor-rope type or the neoprene type?
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By timmy4 - 11 Years Ago
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You can get the right stuff from a auto parts store like napa or auto zone
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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Do rear main seals usually leak from the bottom half of the seal or top?Or is it 50/50?
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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Hey Mark! Where can you purchase "the right stuff"?What seals did he use in your motor-rope type or the neoprene type?
Mark, I've seen it at a lot of the parts stores. It is usually in the Permatex section, and its not cheap. Sometimes it comes in a kit of two cartridges and a small calking gun. I found a single tube and use a regular calking gun. I used neoprene type seals and followed Ted's procedure as best as I could.
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks! Have you tried your Motor with this "fix"?
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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lyonroad (11/4/2013)
Hey Mark! Where can you purchase "the right stuff"?What seals did he use in your motor-rope type or the neoprene type?
Mark, I've seen it at a lot of the parts stores. It is usually in the Permatex section, and its not cheap. Sometimes it comes in a kit of two cartridges and a small calking gun. I found a single tube and use a regular calking gun. I used neoprene type seals and followed Ted's procedure as best as I could.
Did You find that filling the Sides instead of using Side Seals was successful? No Leaks even now Years later?
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By PF Arcand - 6 Years Ago
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Oldcarmark: Are you aware you're replying to a 5 yr old posting? In any case, lyonroad (aka Mark also) has withdrawn from this site some time ago. He's somewhat known to me personally, but I won't comment on his withdrawal from this site..
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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Permatex® The Right Stuff® Gasket Maker- https://www.permatex.com/product-category/gasketing/the-right-stuff-gasket-makers/
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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PF Arcand (11/15/2018)
Oldcarmark: Are you aware you're replying to a 5 yr old posting? In any case, lyonroad (aka Mark also) has withdrawn from this site some time ago. He's somewhat known to me personally, but I won't comment on his withdrawal from this site..
Yes I am aware its an old Post. I was reviewing every Post related to rear main Leaks. There's about 25+ over the Years. They start on Page 100 of the old Topics. I was not aware He is not on anymore. Just trying to get a Consensus of alternative fix's for Leak.
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By darrell - 6 Years Ago
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back in the 70s all i ever used were rope seals 289s 390 never had a leak.the first y blocks i rebuilt i used rope and never had any leaks on any engine.to this day if i could buy good rope seals i would use them.i trust them over the rubber seals.ive taken apart 56 engines with close to 100,000 on them original motors that were not leaking.back when an easy fix for leaking seals was to force a steel shim over the top half and just replace the bottom half.not many had the tool for doing this.i would like to see a picture of one.
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By Tedster - 6 Years Ago
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NOS rope seals were likely then made with asbestos. While it has been banned for health reasons there isn't really any viable substitute. The modern replacement "green" rope type seals don't work very well. So, the Neoprene type seems to be the practical work around.
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By 2721955meteor - 6 Years Ago
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Tedster (11/15/2018)
NOS rope seals were likely then made with asbestos. While it has been banned for health reasons there isn't really any viable substitute. The modern replacement "green" rope type seals don't work very well. So, the Neoprene type seems to be the practical work around.
some leaks are the pan gasket and seal retainer. i find the best gaskets are way better for leaks in the rear seal aria oil will drip and appear to be the rear seal
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