distributor and other upgrades


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By 55fordf100 - 12 Years Ago
does anybody know where to pickup up a HEI distributor cheaper that 300 to 400 bucks? and also some minor upgrades with out taking the motor apart. im going to put a 500cfm Holley 2bbl and has anybody put E3 spark pugs in a yblock? anything will help thanks
By gekko13 - 12 Years Ago
If you are seeking to convert to an electronic system, the Ford Duraspark internals will swap into a "late-style",  '57 - up distributor.  You can then wire it to a box of your choice.  The Pertronix stuff is also popular.  Personally, I do not like the GM style HEI but to each his own.  JMO
By Talkwrench - 12 Years Ago
Steve will probably jump in here...

You can make up your own HEI by simply using your dissy as the trigger and adding a 4 pin Bosch HEI. Personally I like HEI, If you have ever seen the spark it produces..geez!   But it maybe easier going Pertronix. I am about to try out the Lightning 3 its a multi spark right through the rev range ..doesn't cut out at 3000rpm like another "name" brand. I'll let you all know how it goes , not that Im expecting any real difference.

By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
55fordf100,

What size is your y block and what exhaust are you running? I have a holley 350 two barrel on my 272 and it is plenty of carb for that engine. I'd argue that a two barrel 350 is all you need for a 292 most people get better performance from a 390,  450, 495 four barrel as the primaries are smaller and provide a crisp throttle. A larger carb will not be advantageous as the engine/exhaust will not flow more than about 90% volumetric efficiency. Do the math.

E plugs are probably snake oil. Most exotic metal cored multi tipped spark plugs are. Most of these variables have been tried several times. There is a reason that spark plugs are the same as they were 100 years ago when they were invented.  

If you have an original 55 y block and it's still running vacuum only advance and a 94. It's a really good project to change to a Modern carb on a later manifold and a dizzy with both mechanical and vacuum advance and dual exhaust. This makes the y crisp and energetic and surprisingly good in the configuration.

Cheers

Warren

By 4thgen57 - 12 Years Ago
I'm running a Pertronix Ignitor I kit in my stock dist.Believe you can pick these up for about $85 now. It installed in less that an hour and was able to use same coil and wires. Hasnt given me any trouble yet.
By 55fordf100 - 12 Years Ago
im putting lake side headers on it and a flame thower 3 coil on it thats my plan any other in puts?
By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
If you decide to ad Pertronix get the Pertronix 2 not the original.Pertronix 2 wont burn out if you leave the key turned on without the motor running.The original Pertronix will burn out in minutes because of the heat generated without the motor running.
By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago
This illustration shows the "three lobed stem" Motorcraft Y-block distributor you are looking for. Often available as a replacement for a 1964 Ford 292 truck application. Saves a hassle in explaining your intent to a sales clerk.

The point plate will look like this....

The points can be replaced with one of several aftermarket "points replacement" trigger units. The earliest version of the Pertronix Ignitior has a tendency to fry if you accidently leave it on with the engine dead - but any of the others will work fine. The upper rotor shaft (cam), points, and parts can also be swapped with the trigger unit of a Ford "Duraspark II" distributor (used from 1974 to 1985). This isn't a difficult mechanical conversion once you have the parts in front of you. The Ford triggers are pretty bulletproof - and parts are available. Once you have the Ford trigger in there - all sorts of control boxes and coils can be used to complete the ignition.

 

Basically the power of an inductive ignition spark has to do with how many amps you can reliably feed the coil to charge it. The higher energy electronic spark systems have coils with low primary OHMs - and therefore have to have higher rated grounding transistors and amperage control circuitry. If you are interested in doing your own  - and for a low price and straight forward design - you cannot beat using the Ford trigger with a GM type HEI "four pin" controller.

None of this is rocket science and you will soon have a powerful ignition - with no great expense. Using the low OHM GM coil shown below will net "high performance" without the big price of big name hot rod parts suppliers. This one is out of a 4.3 S-10 pickup and had two nice snap connectors. Primary OHMs are about .5 - don't use one with a controller that doesn't have amperage control. Many of the "points replacement" unit specifically say they must be used with coils that don't have lower than 1.5 OHMs primary resistance - this would burn them up.

The GM 4 pin controllers are avaiable from several outfits - besides left over "real" GM parts. It gets mounted on a nice chunk of aluminum with heat couplant paste (and hidden away from water) to reject heat. Mounted outside the distributor (where it was originally located in the factory distributor) nets a huge gain in heat reduction.

I rig these up with an ignition ("on") operated relay to handle the amps needed to fully charge the coil - and do it out under the hood. Keeps the big loads out of your dash. The HEI controller uses a Motorola chip to turn on the coil with a transistor ground - and then shuts it off when it has handled all the heat it can reliably manage.

The above trace shows the results - the saturated coil has 5.5 AMPs of current and when the circuit breaks - the secondary will have a serious jolt to deliver.BigGrin

By gekko13 - 12 Years Ago
Steve, that is a terrific explanation of how to convert to electronic ignition.  I notice that you call out a GM coil.  Is the Ford TFI coil compatible with the GM 4-pin type module?  I would like to do a conversion on a couple of my vehicles but would prefer to keep them as FoMoCo as possible.  Thanks!
By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago
The TFI "E-core" coil will work just fine - and I'd say it will have a long and useful life. But the energy it delivers just won't be up there like the GM unit shown in the test illustration above. The speed at which the coil current rises will be considerably reduced - due to the greater primary resistance. The Ford trigger beats the GM set-up hands down - but the controllers and coils don't have the high current edge.

MSD has a "Streetfire" replacement coil for the TFI unit - about .44 OHMs primary - and it will use the same snap on Ford connector. Given the opportunity - I'd say try them both and see what you think. This unit below is a common replacement for the GM coil - and with the exception of the connector - looks just like the Ford part.

 

A friend of mine built one of these to use on a "cold blooded" 460 truck engine - and now it starts like it ought to, cranks right up. 

By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
55: Might want to check out that 500 CFM Holley 2 Bbls intended usage. At least one model is actually intended as a limited class race carb. Likely not your best street carb...
By Talkwrench - 12 Years Ago
im putting lake side headers on it and a flame thower 3 coil on it thats my plan any other in puts?

Dont be using that coil. its around .35 ohms and unless your setup is designed for it, it wont be doing you any favours!

By gekko13 - 12 Years Ago
Thank you Steve for the information re. the GM coil.  I had an early ('76 Corvette) HEI take a $%it on me back in the day and have been leery of them ever since.  I appreciate your expertise.
By 55fordf100 - 12 Years Ago
the motor is out of a 1957 f100 not a 1955
By Lord Gaga - 11 Years Ago
I'd like to do the 4 pin HEI conversion as outlined by GREENBIRD56.
My car has overdrive. Will the momentary grounding of the coil by the kick down switch fry the module?
By GREENBIRD56 - 11 Years Ago
That's definitely not one of the things I've tried out for sure. The 4 pin chip has current limiting - but a dead short might not be the best sort of use for that feature.

The control power to the module might be the best place to ground or interupt it - I'm assuming that's the means to momentarily reduce engine torque while the shift occurs?
By Lord Gaga - 11 Years Ago
GREENBIRD56 (2/14/2013)
That's definitely not one of the things I've tried out for sure. The 4 pin chip has current limiting - but a dead short might not be the best sort of use for that feature.

The control power to the module might be the best place to ground or interupt it - I'm assuming that's the means to momentarily reduce engine torque while the shift occurs?


Yes, the coil is grounded just long enough to allow the solenoid to pull the pawl out of the O.D. "gizmo".....maybe one second or less? I'm not sure.
So, could I somehow use a relay in the power wire to the module from the ign. switch that would be controlled by the kick-down switch? Or?
This is a diagram of what I have:

Thanks, I'd sure appreciate any suggestions.
By GREENBIRD56 - 11 Years Ago
I just woke up to the realization that providing an additional (and parallel) path to ground from the negative post of the coil shouldn't do much to the controller module. All of those little electrons just wander home by the shortest route - and if that avoids the transistor temporarily - no big deal.....
By Lord Gaga - 11 Years Ago
That's good news. I'll start gathering the parts needed and give it a go. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
By The Master Cylinder - 11 Years Ago
GREENBIRD56 (8/11/2012)
This illustration shows the "three lobed stem" Motorcraft Y-block distributor you are looking for.....


Excellent write up, Steve, give you 5 stars. Thanks for sharing, I think this should go into the Tech Article section to preserve for all to reference.
By Lord Gaga - 11 Years Ago
GREENBIRD56 (2/18/2013)
I just woke up to the realization that providing an additional (and parallel) path to ground from the negative post of the coil shouldn't do much to the controller module. All of those little electrons just wander home by the shortest route - and if that avoids the transistor temporarily - no big deal.....


You're right! I did a test on another car with the HEI conversion and "all those little electrons" did indeed seem to wander home by the shortest route. lol.
I've most of parts gathered now and am almost ready to make the change over. I thought of something else;
Are resistor secondary wires required? And if so, will Taylor spiral core wires suffice? THANKS
By scott5560 - 11 Years Ago
I just completed the HEI conversion to the stock distributor with Duraspark internals installed. Was a bit of work but seems to work good. Mounted the HEI module remotely on the firewall on a piece of aluminum to act as heat sink and lots of air flow. All pieces collected were $66 plus my time. Not driven yet but idle quality seems better and throttle response crisper. Set to 17 intial and mech advance 38 and total max with vacuum advance 50 same as old set-up. Waiting for roads to clear up and get back together from other mods.

Scott
By Lord Gaga - 11 Years Ago
Are resistor plug wires needed with the HEI conversion???????????
By pegleg - 11 Years Ago
Only if you want to hear your radio. And they do actually work better on the street.
By Lord Gaga - 11 Years Ago
Thanks Frank. I've got solid core wires on it now and really don't want to go through the ordeal of installing those Taylor 8mm wires in the wire holders (1957) if I don't have to. And funny thing, I have no static AT ALL on the stock T&C radio with the solid cores. (The car has the factory condensers on the generator and voltage regulator, that's it) .