About Argentine heads


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By Highvoltage - 17 Years Ago
The production of vehicles in Argentina by Ford, powered by V8 engines always was based on 292 Y-blocks. 50`s cars and trucks imported from USA were equiped with original engines. Vehicles from normal production(trucks at earlys 60) was equiped with Y blocks, some imported 312, 368 and some 352" FE`s. Later, Y-blocks became standard and only V8 engine that Argie Ford put on it`s vehicles. In 1969 ford introduce a 4door sedan called Fairlane, Know in USA to carry a small blocks and FE`s engine. But Ford introduce that car with an Y-block on current production for F100/350/600 trucks.

During 1966, Argentinian Racers were working with many inventions to give your cars more power. Based on a technical race rules and some parameters, Ford in conjunction with ford racers develop a design based on 289" small block heads. It was basically an Y-block with Small block heads and cam with sball block firing order and small block intake and exhaust ports order. Also was reduced on displacement to 4 liter(maybe 240") Reach the scary amount of 320 HP.

On 1969, Ford decide to make the mod to Y-blocks impulsed by results of that modification and some excuese about the bad an small space in the fairlane engine compartment.

The results was called "fase 2"(phase II) Then people star to call "fhase 1" to the original 292 desing.

The diferences are:

-New head desing, based on 289 heads with same valve order(I-E/I-E/I-E/I-E) versus original ford design or fhase 1 head(E-I/I-E/E-I/I-E)(I=intake, E=exhaust)

-Because the head, the cam was a new design based on the Small block order.

-exhaust manifolds was made same as 289 xhaust manifolds as seen on the pic.

Other changes was the relocation of the oil charge tube, you can see it on the pic, located on valve cover.

Argie engines on stock condition always was the same 2, only variation was the type of oilpans(fortruck or car): compression ratio(7,1:1 for trucks and 8:1 for Fairlane) by changing pistons(dish, flat and a late version of dome pistos); electronic ignition; diameter of valves(smaller for trucks an larger for cars and F100 post 80`s) and the same 2 barrel holley carb.

Later I`m going to post a traslation to english of the making of that engine thatwas the inspiration for the argie design.

Cheers,

Mariano

By Highvoltage - 17 Years Ago
Forgot to mention something. Here in Argentina aren`t performance pieces for this engines. Only some piston, cams builders but the rest goes for each racer or designer. I know a people who are working to make aluminum timing covers and some experimental aluminum intake manifolds for original and phase 2 engines.
By Ted - 17 Years Ago
Thanks for the info.  The picture of the engine out of the vehicle starts to answer some of the questions regarding these engines and your dialogue clears up many questions also.  Look forward to more information and especially details about intake manifolds, rocker arms and related hardware, etc.
By Y block Billy - 17 Years Ago
Highvoltage,

Very interesting, I have always wondered about those engines.

One question with the cam and valve arrangement change is, Did they always stick with a solid mushroom lifter or did they make some blocks with drop in or hydraulic lifters???

the other big question is what ever happened to the molds for those catings??? It would be nice if they were dug out of the rubble somewhere.

By Highvoltage - 17 Years Ago
Sorry, I have 2 minutes to share with you.

Thanks Billy & Ted for your interest.

The same mechanical lifters remains on Phase II engines. Same rocker arms configuration too.

Moulds are at original foundry buildings, they made a set of 50 pair by year for some parts dealers, but they make it on cast iron. It would be better if they  make it on aluminum. We must wait for some miracle...

By MoonShadow - 17 Years Ago
At this point no body here has any specific knowledge about these heads. We would probably need to get a head, or a set of them, to bench test. Are there any "Flow Test" results available on them? If they flow better and the manifold issue can be resolved maybe we could have them cast some for us?Smile Aluminum is great but If they are good enough Iron is fine! Shipping may be a problem cost wise but a slow boat is usually cheapest. Chuck
By Highvoltage - 17 Years Ago
Another view

By 63 Red Stake Bed - 17 Years Ago
Hello gang.

I think the argentina heads would be well worth the shipping money, should someone decide to go get some!

No, but seriously, if you look on youtube.com, & type in Y block, you can find some short videos of argentina y blocks being run.  The sould of the engine is definetly a cross breed of the loveable Y, & a small blocks snappy response.

Some rebop heads would be in high demand!  would be much better than plain alum. heads with semi improved ports.

It's only money right??

63 stakebed

By MoonShadow - 17 Years Ago
Anibal,

Can someone out there come up with a decent set of Argentine heads? Ship them to Ted Eaton and let him test them. If they are good, and if Ford Argentina continues to make 50 sets a year, we could buy a run or have a run done in aluminum if possible. Just food for thought.
By Hoosier Hurricane - 17 Years Ago
Chuck:

There is a pair of them in the US.  One was at EXPO 3 or 4 years ago, for the life of me I can't remember who brought it.  He had brought them from Argentina.

At the time we sort of passed over them, camshaft issue mainly.  Now I'm sure we could get a windsor cam made with Y sized journals, use a belt driven oil pump and crank trigger ignition.  Or import Argentine blanks and have them ground to profiles we want.

John

By ford1940deluxe - 17 Years Ago
hi everybody.  am George.  friend of highvoltage, this is my page.

www.fordv8292.ar.gs

all info of Fase 2 argentino, it's here.
By Highvoltage - 17 Years Ago
You can get a decent pair of heads+cam for about 300 u$s or less, but shipping costs would be expensive.

If you are interested on a pair of heads please let me know.

Here is another friend of mine, from Buenos Aires, George(Jorge) signed as Ford40Deluxe

By RB - 17 Years Ago
I got the link to work but I can't read Spanish. Any foreign language experts in the group? Excepting Canadian and Aussie. Anybody want to start a collection for freight to Mummert's shop from Buenos Aires.
By pegleg - 17 Years Ago
RB,

   Ah kin speek hoosier ! Cain't speek Wiscousin though!w00t

By Moz - 17 Years Ago
g'day rb

whats wrong with aussies ?

 moz.  geelong victoria australia.

By ford1940deluxe - 15 Years Ago
madjack the pirate (11/12/2007)
George, your link doesn't seem to work.




sorry my new link



www.fordv8argentina.com.ar


By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago
Ford sent Cleveland's foundry tooling for the Y to Argentina.  Old engine tooling is usually bought outright (for service parts), unless Ford mass produces for a specific niche.

Production head and block molds are made of silica sand and resin binders in 'hot box' core machines.  (Click on the link to see a very small core machine)  Noticed the parting lines on a head?  Many stacked core molds comprise a cast iron head.  It is an intricate one-piece manifold for air, coolant, and oil flow.

The same hot box will make each core at different times by changing mold tooling.  Cast iron has a much different overall shrink than aluminum.  That means, aluminum molds require different dimensions, made by a skilled Mold Maker.

Sand molds have a short shelf life, are fragile, and must be kept arid.  Ford dips their cured sand molds in Refractory 'Paint', and bakes them to extract ALL moisture just before casting.  Doing a run of fifty heads means hundreds of core mold components waited for the last core pieces to be made.  When iron is finally poured at 3,000*F, each sand mold breaks down, is poured out, and washed out of the casting.

If you ever experience molten metal poured on trapped water, you will NEVER forget it.  When the steam explodes, the earth under your feet ROCKS, and molten iron flies in every direction.  First, it knocks you down because iron is heavy, then it burns immediately.  It's safe to pour water on molten iron, but never pour iron (or slag) on water.

I went through this for a better understanding of why they don't just make heads (or blocks) out of a different metal.  Even the machining phase is different; aluminum heads need guides and seats inserted, and usually go through a LockTite process because of metal porosity.

By ford1940deluxe - 15 Years Ago
Other differences, the admission of the fase 2 was mas big and more discharge, The ditribuidor must to go more up.











the link from my page



http://fordv8argentina.com.ar/diferenciasentref1f2.htm

http://fordv8argentina.com.ar/v8292272.htm



In the fase 2 into whole change the cylinders heads, the camshaft, the admission and the distributor.



sorry for my english
By davis - 15 Years Ago
so did these argentina engines also use the standard Y block design intake manifold?

almost sounds closer to a small cubed FE.


By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago
Davis, these argy windsor heads would use their own intake as intake ports are same as windsor, i.e spread apart ! years back when we all became aware these heads existed, one of the y blockers reported in the magazine of visiting Argentina and was given a set of these heads by mechanic there, if i recall ted or others were of the opinion these windsor heads wouldnt flow any better than a y block head, so apart from a few fantising about testing a set of these with the view of owning any is a bit of a pipe dream. But would be good talking point in car. To add to it subject ,"Industria Argentina" who cast all the ford engine parts etc for many years also made a few alloy heads for racing back in 57 and then cast iron versions for their trucks there and were often just referred to as 292 truck heads. There was a cover shot and article in hotrod magazine years back of weslake style cast iron 292 headed engine in hotrod. They both add an interesting dimension to our favourite engine. Regards aussie bill.
By davis - 15 Years Ago
aussie,

those intake ports look killer!

i'm sure those could be ported to flow better than a stock Y head.

got any pics of the combustion chamber?

i couldnt find any online.


By davis - 15 Years Ago
found this link regarding these heads.

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/hotnews/0811cct_weslake_ford_y_block_engine/index.html



these would definitely outflow the standard Y heads!







By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago
Davis, yes that is the Weslake race engine on display at speedway motors in nebraska, would kill for that great sump! I will turn head over and send pic of combustion chambers, they are small!  they are cast so nicely and all the port runners are so smooth.  One of the old time racers brought all the left over race parts from that 57 programme and eventually it was sold off in pieces, my buddy got  2 of the cast iron version of these alloy heads, intakes,cams,pumps etc but lots stiill missing to make an engine run, sure is impressive.

How did you include actual photo in description instead of as an attachment?

Best regards Aussiebill..

By davis - 15 Years Ago
i posted the pics in my photobucket album. (or some other photo hosting site)

drag the image to the "reply" box where we normally insert text.

sometimes you have to add "" at the end of it. but don't include the "".



if i remove the image from my photos page, the link is broken and you all see a small broken box in a corner.



i had seen pics of that engine from the museum engine site couple years ago and now i know more about it. wow, rare is right.

that sure would steal the show at the EMC whether it made high numbers or not.
By Ted - 15 Years Ago
aussiebill (5/20/2009)
How did you include actual photo in description instead of as an attachment?

Picture posting instructions  

I’ll add that pictures straight from a digital camera are typically too large to upload directly to the site without first downsizing them.  This site barely tolerates 600X600 pixel sizing when using a host site and while 500X500 is this sites upload maximum, smaller than this for any picture is preferred from both upload and viewing speed standpoints.

By Ted - 15 Years Ago
Not the Weslake heads but here are some pics of the Argentina heads that were originally submitted by Henry Floored.

   

   

   

By davis - 15 Years Ago
so the iron heads use shaft rockers with a hydraulic lifter cam?

and a different intake?
By Ted - 15 Years Ago
davis (5/21/2009)
so the iron heads use shaft rockers with a hydraulic lifter cam?    and a different intake?

Shaft rockers with a solid lift cam but a different firing order.  Intake is definitely different.  Here’s a pic that Anibal posted on the site awhile back showing the intake on the Argentine heads.

 

By aussiebill - 15 Years Ago
Thanks Ted and Davis for photo tips, if this works it will show some of the weslake head features, 14mm slanted plugs, beautifull ports. Notice how the rocker shafts are supported by end caps that bolt in from end of head. . Regards aussie bill.

 .

By Highvoltage - 15 Years Ago
Exelent pictures and info! thanks for sharing!

Those heads was designed for some race engines back on 70´s. An actual governor(or governator? oh, that´s Arnold! Wink ) Of an Argentina province and a Former Formula One racer, Carlos Reutemman, has some races with a car with these heads.

An Argie mechanic/designer/racer called Heriberto Pronello has a set of that heads. I will try to obtain some info about that heads and that person.

the builder, "tandil" something, now Ronicevi or tandilbert don´t want to build it again. even if a big quantity. Angry