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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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hi guys im trying to figure out my throttle bell crank & i know theres a return spring that goes from it to the block but i dont know where it goes have any of you guys got any pictures or diagrams tht show it i know steve metzger posted something about it ages ago.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Here is the diagram I posted long ago Moz - its of the '56 Thunderbird set-up - but similar to oithers with the Ford-O-Matic. The return spring drops down to the back of the intake manifold from an arm on the manifold linkage. Its almost vertical when at the normal idle position. 
I had a lot of trouble with my outfit - with the Demon carb - due to rapid release of the throttle flopping everything back too far. Inconsistent at best - so I put a stack of washers under one of the rearmost bolts on the back of the block and arranged a positive stopping point for the bellcrank.
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By Timbo from Mempho - 13 Years Ago
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Hope this helps. 
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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thanks steve & timbo thats just what i needed the only difference is down under our bell cranks are different but the wrking principle is the same  
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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those photos show how it is set up now with the return spring on the carby to get it to work i have to put a bolt in 1 of the gauge holes to lock it up otherwise when i put my foot on the throttle it opens but then the spring pulls the throttle shut while giving the auto control rod full throttle.
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By Timbo from Mempho - 13 Years Ago
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I am going back with the LOKAR cable and their step down for the C-4 Trans. Seems to work good so far. 
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Moz - I think you must be dealing with the same thing I was fighting - the spring in my carb was so strong that the movement of the "kickdown" is staged improperly. With the factory carb and springs, the carb throttle first moves to full throttle - then as you continue to move the foot feed pedal, the linkage continues to rotate in the slot, providing additional over-travel for the kickdown rod. There has to be enough room under the gas pedal to get it to go all of the way - hence the Ford manual spec for clearance under the pedal (shown in the Ford-O-Matic manuals). The internal spring in the Demon was so strong that the primary wouldn't open without first using up the kickdown slot - DUH. 
So for now my "solution" was to put a bolt and washer in the slot and lock it out - yours too? Kickdown is to manually move the shift lever. Someone on the forum wrote that they had some luck doubling up the kickdown spring - making it strong enough to allow the right staging - I haven't tried that but it might be the best way to go. I have built an extension for the kickdown arm, so it travels further as the primary throttle rotates - but the first attempt was a "KLUGE" and didn't get the job done. More work is planned - but at the moment not near the top of my list.
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By drof75 - 13 Years Ago
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Greenbird - I did the exact same thing using the bolt to lock down the kick down travel. I am all so planning to get a spring with more tension to over come the early movement of the kick down linkage. The carb is a holley 1850. The only that puzzles me is that the linkage did not do it all the time. Maybe the kick down spring was marginal. I'll try to get a rating on the spring that works.
Buz
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Moz - you have the stock carb on there don't you? One of the other problems I ran into when the Holley 1850 4bbl was on mine - the swing of the carb lever was longer than with the teapot. So moving the linkage didn't open the throttle as much before. Couldn't find an existing hole in the lever to match - so I drilled another at the right radius to match the teapot. the Demon had a better hole selection than the 1850.
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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yeah your right steve the only way it would work was to lock it up & its got a holley 350 & it does move way further than the throttle can pull it open i can get 3/4 throttle at the most if i put my autolite carby on i would get wot. the other problem i faced was if i set it up per the workshop manual when i pulled the drill bit out of the gauge holes the bellcrank would move & you couldnt put the bit back in all 3 holes now ive put a return spring in its proper position i can now line everything up. last night i was thinking of adding the second spring also for a bit more tension there's every chance that my 52 year old spring is not as strong anymore.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Moz - That inconsistent return was driving me nuts - until I found a spot to put the stack of washers that limits travel of the bellcrank. You'll see that on my diagram - not Ford's. Don't be shy about putting a new hole in the Holley carb lever that matches your Autolite - not being able to reach full throttle is a pain. So the way I set it up was to (1) set the carb idle in gear and (2) adjust the carb link back to the linkage so that the screwdriver would fit through the line-up holes. Then (3) used the adjustable link down to the bellcrank to move the foot pedal to the right height off the floor - like 4-1/2 inches or so. When that was "right" - I put a bolt with stack of washers under it on the back of the engine (where the driverside plug wiring clip attaches or thereabouts) - it stops the bellcrank travel when you release the foot feed sudddenly. the throttle return spring keeps it seated there.
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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steve thats the way i set it up too, now i have the return spring in the right place i can get the gauge holes to stay lined up i was thinking of drilling another hole so i can get it closer to WOT or i may put the autolite on it runs better with that than with the holley, now i need time to play with it a bit & get it out of the shed & see how it works under load conditions
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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ok so i changed to my autolite 2100 & changed the kickdown slot spring for a stronger one the bellcrank started to work as it should added a second spring to the slot it now works as it should, i took it for a drive & for the first time ever i had kick down.
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By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
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Its quite an art getting it right, Its all angle of the dangle... Ive streched and shortened and done all sorts to the springs to get mine to go and I tested the other day [Because I put the ignitor 3 on] and it still works when I mash the pedal however after I " lose the pedal" and I only have about 1/3 movement in it after, gets" lost in the bellcrank somewhere". I did work out if I blip the throttle it pops back .. Pfft! what do you do??
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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yeah talkwrench thats the problem i had id lose the pedal, i ended up taking the original spring off & putting a short spring on, still when it got to the shoulder in the slot id lose a tiny amount of pedal, thats when i thought a second spring cant hurt so i added another short spring & gotthe suprise of my loife when it worked as it should, push the pedal down it stops at the shoulder push it to the floor it goes over the shoulder into kick down.
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