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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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Here's the deal and I imagine a few of you won't like it! I bought a 1963 Ford cab over and i will be restoring/customizing it with the intent to use it for my business (carpet cleaning). I love the truck and plan to leave the look of it all original and I suppose if I had the time and money i would stick with the 292 that is in it but i don't and it is already missing vital parts and I suspect it is seized since it has been open to the weather. My plan then is to replace it with a fuel injected 351W out of an 1989 Ford van, I will transfer most of the wiring harness and components from the van to my truck. I do wish to retain the 4-speed manual transmission that is currently hooked to the 292 Y block but if I'm to understand correctly the bell housing will not bolt up to the 351W. So I'm wondering if anyone here has advice, i need to know if there is an adapter plate available or if a bell housing off a newer transmission that fits the 351W will bolt onto my 4-speed. my only other option i can think of is to abandon the 4-speed and get a newer 4-speed that bolts up to the 351W but I'm worried because the Cab over has a special shifter plate that bolt to the tranny and I'm not sure it will work with another tranny , also this tranny is geared for my truck and fits the mounts and drive shaft so i think it would be best to keep it if i can....... Advice please!
P.S. I do plan to find a good home for the 292, it will not end up in a wreaking yard! Also i do know of a newer cab over with a newer engine but what appears to be the same tranny. Would anyone know what engine it might have? I Believe it is a 1968ish C750. I wonder if this newer truck would have the bell housing i need on it....
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By pegleg - 14 Years Ago
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the 68 might, but i think I'd stick a C4 in it and eliminate the issue.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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Well it would be a C6 since it's a 10,000+ pound vehicle but I can't run an auto because it has air brakes, with air brakes if you ride your brakes going down a hill as you would if you had no engine brakes it would use up all your air pressure and your brakes would lockup. In any case it would not even be allowed on the road with the auto, the C6 was my first thought since i will be driving it mostly in the city I thought it would be nice to run an auto but it is simply not possible.
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By Park Olson - 14 Years Ago
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What size is the truck, 600,700? It would be a rare one to have a 292 with just a 4 speed and AIR?? brakes. just curious, Any truck after '64 will have an FE big block, different bell.
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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A '63 cab over will be a C or H series if I'm not mistaken, and it will probably have a bigger engine than a 292, possibly as big as 577ci if gas powered. If it looks like a Y at a glance, it's probably a Lincoln Y. The 351 may not be a good choice for such a large truck.
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By Park Olson - 14 Years Ago
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The base motor for '63, 500/600/700 would have been a 292, the fact of only a 4 speed sounds like a 500 or 600. Air brakes would start at 750 with a 5 speed and more motor.
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By lowrider - 14 Years Ago
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If it's a y-block looking engine you have the HD truck version of the Lincoln y-block. Displacements used to come in 302, 317 & 332. They were great workhorses and customers got alot of miles out of them. I think you would be much better off to either fix what you have or find the same engine for a replacement. This engine bolts into the truck like the older pick-ups. Front mount & 2 bellhousing mounts. I know of no 351 with a mounting set-up like that. You have a real TRUCK there and you need TRUCK componets to make it last. My .02
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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To start with a 351W is a truck engine (the 351 Cleveland was the car engine), it is also a very dependable and fuel efficient engine and it will start easily in -40 degree weather which the truck will be used in, I'm not planning on taking it to the race track! I have 2 vans that i use daily both with stock 351W the same as the one i have for the truck and they have loads of torque, I generally have between 1,500-2,000 pounds in my vans and they rarely even downshift on hills. The truck is a 3 ton and has a split axle giving it 8 speeds, I have never heard of a 5-speed in any vehicle that age. I'm not positive on the 292, I know I spent a few hours comparing detailed pics I took of the engine to pics and info i found on the internet, it matches a "Y" block in every detail and since the 292 was the biggest and newest "Y" block they made and they discontinued it after '64 I just assumed that would be what would be in my truck. In any case the engine is not really worth salvaging, it would cost well in excess of $3,000 to rebuild and I have my doubts it would come up to the H.P. and torque ratings of my stock 351, I got my 351 for free, runs perfect, low miles, doesn't use a drop of oil, for $3000 I could have it putting out around 400H.P. As for the mounts, that does not concern me in the least, i will be removing the entire cross member from my donor van that the 351 is out of and welding it into the truck, my only issue is finding the correct bell housing. I do apologize, I'm not trying to be difficult here but I'm not interested in being talked out of using my 351, I have a lot of experience with these engines and I know what they are capable of and most of all I'm comfortable working on them. Now as for the model of the truck, that is still a bit of a gray area for me since the emblems for the model are missing, as well the only numbers on the truck that remain are stamped on the left hand frame rail just ahead of the tire, they are: 4497L10AA1019D which I think is the Vin although the cab is actually missing it's Vin tag so i have no way of knowing and then this number which must be the model #: C3TA 5005 JC, I take this to mean it is a 3 ton C series, if anyone here can further decode these for me i would greatly appreciate it. I know the air brake system looks to be original equipment although it has recently be all redone. The other truck I know of is a C750, I believe it is a 1968, i know it is a 68 and up anyways because it has the side emblem on the front of the door with the model and integrated clearance light, they added this clearance light in 1968, it has a door tag that says it is rated at 182 HP but I can't see any indication to what size the engine is, perhaps the H.P. rating will be enough for someone on here to know.... My hope was that this truck would have an engine with the same bell housing pattern as the 351 but the same tranny as my truck since this truck doesn't have air brakes and has a tranny brake instead, it is a smaller truck then mine also in terms of length anyways. I apologize for the length of this post and thank anyone who can offer me any help on this matter.
Matt
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By PF Arcand - 14 Years Ago
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Matt: I don't know if the 351 W is a good choice for your situation or not, being as the info on the truck is so vague. However, your statement that the 351 W engine is a truck engine vs the Cleveland being a car engine is definitely incorrect.
The 351 W was a standard Ford car engine for many years. The Cleveland was a higher performance engine supplied in some Ford products for about 4 years. Other altered detuned versions of it were available in trucks... The other thing that struck me is this. Based on vin # info & the fact that the plate is missing, do you have the registration? If not, are you going to be able to register the truck for regular use?..
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By Park Olson - 14 Years Ago
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The 750 rated at 182 is likely a 330 FE motor, don't think the bell is the same as a 351. The "tranny" brake is a parking brake, very common on trucks that size, and yours too. To further the ID of your truck, what type of wheel/tire combo does it have;,,,6 or 10 lug disc, or spokes w/ Dayton rims? what is the tire size? Pictures would help about 300% 
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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C3TA-5005-JC is an engineering number for some part of the truck. It likely has nothing to do with the specific model.
4497L10AA1019D may very well be the VIN. It's on the frame in that same location for the F series trucks. It looks like a Canadian VIN, according to my '61 manual.
Most truck 351s have anywhere from 10 - 45 more ftlbs than the 292 of that time so assuming it is a 292, it will probably be alright.
The easiest way to tell if your current engine is a Y is to post a couple pictures and we can go from there. Without positively identifying anything, we can't tell you what will and will not work. If it looks like a Y, it's either a Lincoln or Ford Y and in both cases, a 351 bellhousing will not match. There will not be any adapter plates for that 4 speed pattern. If the input shaft is long enough, you can make your own. Otherwise, you'll probably have to use a different transmission.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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The 351W was the optional higher power pickup engine for many years, the 302 being the base engine and then the 351 being the optional one. Yes it was used in cars too but I believe it would have been an option as there again the 302 would have been the base engine. It is just the same as the 4.6 and 5.4 in the modern Ford trucks, those engines are just direct replacement for the 302 and 351. Yes I can understand the fact that the 351 was not used in heavy truck applications over 1ton but I also never said I plan to leave it in stock form. I know of a guy with one in his race car putting out over 450H.P. with a stock bottom end and nothing but bolt on parts.
Yes my truck is missing the Vin tag, I live in Canada, it is not a problem for registration, we do not have titles like in the U.S., all I need to register it is a bill of sale and that doesn't even have to be from the last registered owner (I have made and signed my own before!) I can use the number from the frame to register it, also if we ever have a vehicle with no numbers at all in Canada you just pay $100 at registries and they send a guy out to put a serial tag on your vehicle.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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Yes pics would help, I know but I have been unable to figure out how to upload pics to here. Please advise me as I'm not that skilled with computers!
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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Here's a link to instructions.
http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic34535-6-1.aspx
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By 314 - 14 Years Ago
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all he wants to know is there a windsor bell that will fit that trans.i dont think there is.
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By junkyardjeff - 14 Years Ago
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I have a bellhousing and front mount that should bolt a FE ir FT in it.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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Yeah I think the simplest thing for me to do is buy a 4-speed from a 70's Ford pickup with a 351 in it. My only concern then is the shifter linkage, but it is probably still simpler to modify that then it would be to try and build an adapter plate. I will try to get some pics up here soon in any case because i would like to confirm if it is a 292 in there for sure. By the way the truck has 6 studs on the wheels, also I should mention it has 16.5ft of frame from the back of the cab although I think it has been shortened since it has very little overhang at the back and looks like it has been cut off. It was previously used as a grain truck so i would think it would have to be at least a 3 ton to have a grain box that long on it, also the tow truck driver who moved it for me seemed sure it was a 3 ton.
Matt
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By RB - 14 Years Ago
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If your truck has a 4 speed most likely it is a Borg Warner T-18 or T-19 These are common and were used up into the mid-70s Also if your cabover is a C-750 or larger, the engine could be the Lincoln based 332. On first glance they look like a Y block, but do not have the stacked ports arrangement and are physically larger than a 292.
Find a junkyard with an old interchange book. It could be that the small block/T-18 combination was used on some f-350 -F-600 models.. I am not certain, but I think the 300 6 might have the same bell housing bolt pattern as the small block, and they were used in trucks as well.
Good Luck
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By pegleg - 14 Years Ago
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Royce, The 240/300's did use a SBF Bellhousing bolt pattern.
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By Park Olson - 14 Years Ago
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With a 292?, 4speed, 6 lug Budd wheels you probably have a 600, about 21000 gross wt. When thinking transmissions, you have got to have something compatible with the "out around the barn" shift arrangement on those trucks.
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By junkyardjeff - 14 Years Ago
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Is this one the model with the box looking cab or the one that resembles a 61 to 66 p/u but with a very short hood and the motor half way under the floor.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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It is the box cab, no hood, the cab flips down over the motor which is mostly under the back of the cab. Sorry i haven't had time to put the pics on here yet but will soon.
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By PF Arcand - 14 Years Ago
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63: I don't know what Canadian province you live in, but without a VIN tag & no registration, I doubt that it's as straight forward as you say to get it transferred, if you live say, in British Columbia. A friend of mine just went thru a great todo trying to get a 40 Ford registered, that didn't have a VIN #. Much time, paper work, & $300 later it got done..
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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I live in Alberta, I don't know about BC but here it really is that easy, I have done it before. Besides as I said I have the Vin from the frame and already have a legal bill of sale from the junk yard where i bought it. Other times i have been given cars just for parts or whatever and i have just written up a bill of sale and got a family member to sign it so i could put insurance on it to drive it home, I have never had a problem.
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By yalincoln - 14 Years Ago
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as frank said the 300 6cyl is the same bolt patern as the 351w. look for a 65 or newer, 500-600-650 with a 300 6cyl and check if that bell will work. your better off if you can find one with mounts on the bell.
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By JJ - 14 Years Ago
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If all else fails try Advance Adapters for a custom made one off.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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  ">
My 1963 Cabover as i found it
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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 ">
'63 Ford Cabover
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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 ">
The '63's original engine
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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 ">
And the tranny (4-speed)
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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inside
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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rear view
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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 ">
My progress so far, someone's idea of dent removal caused the front sheet metal to rust beyond repair so i will be cutting out large sections and welding in fresh metal. Overall the truck is in pretty decent shape for it's age but this is the only major damage it has, it isn't as hard to fix as it looks. I thought of cutting the front section off another truck I know of but Ford never really sealed the back side of this front metal at all so there is lots of surface rust on the inside so it just makes more sense to start with fresh metal rather then fighting rust.
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By 314 - 14 Years Ago
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you were right its a 292.
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By junkyardjeff - 14 Years Ago
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Those used to be all over the place around here,I think they were made from 58 up to the 90s and all looked the same except some had 4 headlights.
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By 63cabover - 14 Years Ago
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Yeah you right, quad headlights for 58,59,60 I believe and they used to be pretty popular here to but they are getting kinda rare, as you can see our weather here is not kind to vehicles. I have the front panel welded in now but still have to patch the front and rear corners, this truck was originally white but was redone in red and they did inside and underneath as well so I think that is why it has held up better then others I have seen.
Matt
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By 63 redbed - 13 Years Ago
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Just curious if you have any pics, or id numbers on the trans/bellhousing on this?
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By yalincoln - 13 Years Ago
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there's a chance that a bell off of a mid 80's , F-350 with a 351w, 4 spd might work. you may have to use a electric fan since they mounted the fan up higher on the engine in those cabovers.
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