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By fakirone - 14 Years Ago
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So I picked up this dual quad manifold from Ebay to use on my 292 and I would really like to find out some more about it. There are several casting numbers, one looks like a date, but nothing that points to a manufacturer.
Can anyone help me out with this?
Thank you in advance.
Here's the manifold from above.
and the casting that looks like a date, 5 28 57
Here's the bottom
and the casting numbers that are on the bottom - S - and what looks like - ECG9424-D-
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By ecode ragtop - 14 Years Ago
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THE INTAKE IS A FACTORY FORD PART THAT WOULD HAVE CAME ON A E CODE CAR, IN 1957. SHOULD HAVE A PAIR OF TEA POT HOLLY'S ON IT. SOME WERE DATE CODED ON THE TOP, LIKE THE ONE YOU HAVE, SOME UNDERNEATH AND SOME HAD NO DATE. THE E CODE CAR HAD A H.P. RATING OF 270 AND 285 H.P. IN RACE TRIM. TOM DRUMMOND MIDWEST DIRECTOR 57 FORDS INTERNATIONAL
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By ecode ragtop - 14 Years Ago
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ALLMOST FORGOT, YOU NEED AN E CODE VALLEY PAN OR AFTER MARKET FLAT PAN, OR YOU CAN CRACK THE EARS OF THE MANIFOILD, AS THE BOTTOM OF THE INTAKE HITS THE VALLEY PAN.
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By fakirone - 14 Years Ago
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ecode ragtop (8/10/2010)
ALLMOST FORGOT, YOU NEED AN E CODE VALLEY PAN OR AFTER MARKET FLAT PAN, OR YOU CAN CRACK THE EARS OF THE MANIFOILD, AS THE BOTTOM OF THE INTAKE HITS THE VALLEY PAN.
Thanks for the info.
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By Oldmics - 14 Years Ago
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Tom Do you have any Ford documentation on the 285 H.P. engine? Thanks,Oldmics P.S. The "S" on the manifold is the factory identification on who cast the aluminum. Schmeller Aluminum Foundry in Cleveland (Thanks to Dennis K for that nugget  )
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By ecode ragtop - 14 Years Ago
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OLDMICS, YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS BUILDING THE 26& 99 RACERS . THEY BOTH WERE FACTORY 2X4 INTAKES(56 STYLE). I RECIEVED A LOT OF INFORMATION AND HELP FROM RALPH MOODY. HE LENT ME A LOT OF PAPER WORK AND SUCH FROM FORD TO HOLMAN MOODY IN 57. I WILL TRY TO SEE IF I CAN PUT MY HANDS ON ANY OF IT . IT DID LIST THE CAM CHANGE TO BRING A 270 HORSE TO A 285. RALPH ALSO TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE SUPERCHARGED 57 CUSTOM THAT HE RAN IN THE U.S.A.C. SERIES, AND THE CHANGES THEY MADE TO THE MCCULLOCH UNIT TO MAKE IT RUN ON FULL BOOST THE WHOLE RACE. BURN UP A UNIT IN ONE RACE. BUT HE WON EVERY RACE RAN AT THE MILWAUKEE MILE IN 57. TOM
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By Oldmics - 14 Years Ago
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Tom That camshaft documentation AND anything else would be most helpful. I have a fair amount of parts/info/paperwork about the dual quad 56 + 57 setups but there seems to be a gap in any verifiable info from a credible source (such as Ford documentation) on the 285 H.P. ratings. It is listed as an availiable engine in one of the Ford sales brochours that I have. I"ll bet Smokey and Ralph were on the same page by welding the blower controls wide open.Good for one race only. Thanks for diggin,Oldmics
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By pegleg - 14 Years Ago
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Let me confuse the issue some more! I believe the 285 hp cam is what is refered to today as the Blower cam. Need hurricane and Mummert to jump on that. If so, Mummert is or was making a reproduction. There were actually two cams, one being the standard 57 cam, same as the 245 hp 312's. The other was the "Blower" cam. Eventually rated by NHRA at 345 hp. Then there's another one that may, or may not have been an Isky. That was developed for or by Holmann-Moody, Bud Moore. It is supposed to be more aggressive yet. Dennis K might have some more on that.
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By Oldmics - 14 Years Ago
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Frank I"m pretty sure your correct about the use of a blower cam to make the 285 rating.I"m also aware of dual valve springs installed on the heads of the 285 setups.There are also reports of it being dealer installed. And then I wonder if the blower cam was installed the same as on a supercharged equipted car? Its just seems to be zero Ford information about that configuration availiable that I have ever come across. Oldmics
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 14 Years Ago
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Old mics: Gonna throw a little more fuel on your fire. Years ago I bought a B7A-C cam from my local Ford dealer. When it came in, EDB-B was stamped on the tube, and was marked through and B7A-C was hand lettered on. I put the cam in, and soon after I acquired a used B7A-C, and lost track of where they went. Later, I was checking cam events and reported them to Bruce at YBM. The cam in my T-Bird did not match up with the 290* blower cam. I don't know what it is, but I think it was that EDB cam. A couple years ago I had the engine out of the Bird and took out the rear cam plug because I thought it was leaking oil. On the back of the cam is stamped B7A-C. Gordon Payne told me that replacement cams were hand stamped. I wonder if this is a '56 260 hp cam, and possibly carried over to the 285?????
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By marvh - 14 Years Ago
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here is some info from a TSB
I re-typed it here as when I scanned it the site shrunk it to near unreadable.
SUPERCHARGED ENGINE IDENTIFICATION (1957 Cars and Thunderbird)
The major differences between the two types of supercharged engines, currently available through production, are listed below for identification purposes.
A. Supercharged engines are normally built with the standard camshaft (B7A-6250-B) and single valve springs.
B. Domestic Special Order (D.S.O.) supercharged engines are built with a high lift camshaft (B7A-6250-C) and use additional dampener springs.
C. The only method of positively identifying the two supercharged engines without removing the camshaft, is by measuring the camshaft lobe lift. The camshaft lobe lift is 0.272 inch (intake valve) on the standard camshaft and 0.290 inch on the high lift camshaft. (refer to the 1957 Supercharger shop manual for additional service information).
marv
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By marvh - 14 Years Ago
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 Here is info on the EDB high performance cam marv
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By Dennis K. - 14 Years Ago
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Re blower and 8V cams: One internal document I have indicates the 285hp engine was cancelled upon release of the Supercharged 300 hp engine on or about 30 Dec 1956. The 1957 Ford Supercharger Shop Manual lists two cams, a standard camshaft which is the 256 deg and a high lift which is the 290 deg. The 256 deg was also used in the 312 - 245 hp 4V, 270 hp 8V, and 300 hp S/C engines. There were two DSO camshafts, the earlier one was 290 deg .446" EDB-6250-D (Engrg p/n) / B7A-6250-C (Service p/n). The design was completed on 8/11/56 and released on 12/5/56. Previous to the release the cam was assigned an XE part number. The later DSO cam was 302 deg .454" EDB-6250-E / B7A-6250-C. The design was completed on 12-10-56 and was released on 6-12-57. Previous to the release, this cam was also assigned an XE part number. I think these camshaft release dates coincide somewhat with release of the Phase 1 and Phase 2 blowers. For whatever reason two different camshafts were assigned the same service part number. This coincides with the TSB previously posted and the Ford cross reference list. The use of a DSO cam would give what I believe is referred to as the 340 hp engine. IF the 290 deg blower cam was used in the 285 hp engine, it most likely would of carried an XE part number. In addition, (>1962) there were camshafts B7AE-6250-A,B,C,D,E, AND F. Note B7AE not B7A. A - Same as EDB-6250-D, except crossdrilled B - Same as EDB-6250-E, except crossdrilled C - 290 deg x drilled and induction hardened lobes D - 302 deg x drilled and induction hardened lobes E - Same as EDB-6250-D but with induction hardened lobes F - Same as EDB-6250-E but with induction hardened lobes Now is everyone confused? LOL If anyone comes up with info on the 285 hp cam, I would certainly like to hear about it. Regards, Dennis
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By aussiebill - 14 Years Ago
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Dennis K. (8/12/2010)
Re blower and 8V cams: One internal document I have indicates the 285hp engine was cancelled upon release of the Supercharged 300 hp engine on or about 30 Dec 1956. The 1957 Ford Supercharger Shop Manual lists two cams, a standard camshaft which is the 256 deg and a high lift which is the 290 deg. The 256 deg was also used in the 312 - 245 hp 4V, 270 hp 8V, and 300 hp S/C engines. There were two DSO camshafts, the earlier one was 290 deg .446" EDB-6250-D (Engrg p/n) / B7A-6250-C (Service p/n). The design was completed on 8/11/56 and released on 12/5/56. Previous to the release the cam was assigned an XE part number. The later DSO cam was 302 deg .454" EDB-6250-E / B7A-6250-C. The design was completed on 12-10-56 and was released on 6-12-57. Previous to the release, this cam was also assigned an XE part number. I think these camshaft release dates coincide somewhat with release of the Phase 1 and Phase 2 blowers. For whatever reason two different camshafts were assigned the same service part number. This coincides with the TSB previously posted and the Ford cross reference list. The use of a DSO cam would give what I believe is referred to as the 340 hp engine. IF the 290 deg blower cam was used in the 285 hp engine, it most likely would of carried an XE part number. In addition, (>1962) there were camshafts B7AE-6250-A,B,C,D,E, AND F. Note B7AE not B7A. A - Same as EDB-6250-D, except crossdrilled B - Same as EDB-6250-E, except crossdrilled C - 290 deg x drilled and induction hardened lobes D - 302 deg x drilled and induction hardened lobes E - Same as EDB-6250-D but with induction hardened lobes F - Same as EDB-6250-E but with induction hardened lobes Now is everyone confused? LOL If anyone comes up with info on the 285 hp cam, I would certainly like to hear about it. Regards, Dennis Wow dennis, thats very informative! i wonder if any members have any of these cams as described? regards bill.
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By Philo - 14 Years Ago
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aussiebill (8/13/2010)
Dennis K. (8/12/2010)
Re blower and 8V cams: One internal document I have indicates the 285hp engine was cancelled upon release of the Supercharged 300 hp engine on or about 30 Dec 1956. The 1957 Ford Supercharger Shop Manual lists two cams, a standard camshaft which is the 256 deg and a high lift which is the 290 deg. The 256 deg was also used in the 312 - 245 hp 4V, 270 hp 8V, and 300 hp S/C engines. There were two DSO camshafts, the earlier one was 290 deg .446" EDB-6250-D (Engrg p/n) / B7A-6250-C (Service p/n). The design was completed on 8/11/56 and released on 12/5/56. Previous to the release the cam was assigned an XE part number. The later DSO cam was 302 deg .454" EDB-6250-E / B7A-6250-C. The design was completed on 12-10-56 and was released on 6-12-57. Previous to the release, this cam was also assigned an XE part number. I think these camshaft release dates coincide somewhat with release of the Phase 1 and Phase 2 blowers. For whatever reason two different camshafts were assigned the same service part number. This coincides with the TSB previously posted and the Ford cross reference list. The use of a DSO cam would give what I believe is referred to as the 340 hp engine. IF the 290 deg blower cam was used in the 285 hp engine, it most likely would of carried an XE part number. In addition, (>1962) there were camshafts B7AE-6250-A,B,C,D,E, AND F. Note B7AE not B7A. A - Same as EDB-6250-D, except crossdrilled B - Same as EDB-6250-E, except crossdrilled C - 290 deg x drilled and induction hardened lobes D - 302 deg x drilled and induction hardened lobes E - Same as EDB-6250-D but with induction hardened lobes F - Same as EDB-6250-E but with induction hardened lobes Now is everyone confused? LOL If anyone comes up with info on the 285 hp cam, I would certainly like to hear about it. Regards, Dennis Wow dennis, thats very informative! i wonder if any members have any of these cams as described? regards bill. That's very interesting! I believe I have one of those B7AE cams in the 322 Y-Block engine that's in my '48 Tudor. It was given to me by a friend in 1965. He said it was the "blower cam". He bought it from a Ford parts counter but never used it as he was going to FE engines. It is cross drilled. I always wondered why it wasn't grooved...now I know! The next time I adjust the valves I'll check the lobe lift to see if it's the .446" or .454". Thanks Dennis!
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By pegleg - 14 Years Ago
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I believe Mummert is having a repop of the 290 made, which he calls a blower cam. Probably with more modern lobe configurations though. John is extremely knowledgeable about cams, and if he sells it, it works. My cam in a Engle which was ground on a new billet, but using more modern lobes and slightly more lobe seperation than the factory cam. It would check stock (290) as it must for pre stock. We cannot get these from Engle any more as they have no more Y block cores. I still kind of think, and maybe Ted could verify, that some of the 56 cams and the 302 were ground by Isky and numbered by Ford for Nascar, well USAC. Can't prove it though. Maybe we should ask Ed, he's still around.
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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My cam is one of the blower cams he used to sell. The specs on the card are 226@.050, 274 advertised, 112 separation, and .295 lift. These specs clearly don't match what has been posted so far, though.
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By Dennis K. - 14 Years Ago
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Lobe lift for the 290 and 302 duration cams were .290 and .295 respectively. Kindly report back what you measure. Regards, Dennis
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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Dennis K. (8/14/2010)
Lobe lift for the 290 and 302 duration cams were .290 and .295 respectively. Kindly report back what you measure.
Regards,
Dennis
Who, me?
I had to check it one time and it measured .288. It had somewhere around 11K miles on it at that time. Allowing for geometric error, measuring with the head on, it most likely is the bigger of the two. It's advertised to be .295. Unless the duration was measured differently back then, it's not a copy of the 302 duration cam.
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By Dennis K. - 14 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (8/14/2010)
Dennis K. (8/14/2010)
Lobe lift for the 290 and 302 duration cams were .290 and .295 respectively. Kindly report back what you measure.
Regards,
DennisWho, me? I had to check it one time and it measured .288. It had somewhere around 11K miles on it at that time. Allowing for geometric error, measuring with the head on, it most likely is the bigger of the two. It's advertised to be .295. Unless the duration was measured differently back then, it's not a copy of the 302 duration cam. No, my reply was directed to "Philo". Sorry, still learning how to navigate this forum. However I do have a question for you. When you mentioned "he used to sell" in a previous post, who (cam manufacturer?) were you referring to? Regards, Dennis
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By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
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John Mummert.
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By Dennis K. - 14 Years Ago
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pegleg (8/13/2010)
I believe Mummert is having a repop of the 290 made, which he calls a blower cam. Probably with more modern lobe configurations though. John is extremely knowledgeable about cams, and if he sells it, it works. My cam in a Engle which was ground on a new billet, but using more modern lobes and slightly more lobe seperation than the factory cam. It would check stock (290) as it must for pre stock. We cannot get these from Engle any more as they have no more Y block cores. I still kind of think, and maybe Ted could verify, that some of the 56 cams and the 302 were ground by Isky and numbered by Ford for Nascar, well USAC. Can't prove it though. Maybe we should ask Ed, he's still around. More factory high performance camshaft info: The 1956 260 hp cam (recently discussed in the YBM - Randy Millard article) is an EDB-6250-B. The specs are 260/260 dur and .278"/.278" lobe lift (.398" @ 1.43 ratio) The M-260 engine camshaft is an ECZ-6250-B. The specs originally were 257/257 duration .300 lobe lift, then shortly changed to 256/252 duration .294 lobe lift. (.429"/.420" @ 1.43 ratio) The M-260 cam b/p specified "Hard Facing Alloy On Cam Lobes". It also specified "Engineering approval of samples from each supplier is required prior to authorization of part production". This would lead me to believe this cam was coming from an aftermarket supplier that utilized hard facing, ie. - Isky and others. It was the only cam I found that had these callouts. The other blower cams did not. I think for production all the blower cams in 1957 were manufactured (ground) by Ford at one of their engine plant. For service it may be possible that cams were manufactured by an outside supplier. Since the 292 were in cars through 1962 and in trucks until 1964, I don't think it would of been unreasonable for Ford to manufacture the blower service cams at their engine plant. Re the stories on the Ford relabeled shipping tubes from an aftermarket cam supplier for blower? cams. If anyone has one of these shipping tubes or photos of it, it would be nice to see what exactly it says. Regards, Dennis
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By yalincoln - 14 Years Ago
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hi, i rebuilt a motor for my friends e-bird last year. the engine hadn't been torn down since 1975. we found the bearings had been changed in 64. it had daul springs and a RPM-300 isky cam. could it have been a 285hp. it had old style traction bars welded on and a switch on the shifter for the overdrive. my friend powder coated everything he could on the engine. it looks and sounds great.
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By yalincoln - 14 Years Ago
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here's the cam,
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