PCV Mod for the Y


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By 2DRHRDTP57 - 15 Years Ago
Guys,

Just reposting this as some were having difficulty finding the old link,

Drilled and tapped to suit 1/4 NPT valve AC Part number CV726C

Apparently standard on a 1968 C*** Camaro

I have run a hose from here into the rear of the manfold vacuum fitting which is facing rearward straight out and down to the PCV.

By Ted - 15 Years Ago

Dutchy. Thanks for reposting. One of those tips that just gets better over time.

.

Here’s the link for the original thread where you originally submitted the process of installing the PCV valve at the rear of the block as opposed to installing it in the valley pan or a valve cover.
Installation of PCV valve into the top of the block

By 46yblock - 15 Years Ago
2DRHRDTP, nice job.  Sure wish I had seen that (or remembered seeing it) before the block was assembled.
By Dan - 15 Years Ago
very cool, was just about ready to go searching for this info, I like the way you did this and think I will give this a shot...
By oldcarmark - 15 Years Ago
If you were wanting to use a PCV valve designed for the 292 y-block the 64 F100 with 292 uses a similar  screw-in valve.Go to Napaonline.com for a picture!
By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
Mark - the check valve operates in the opposite direction on the Ford parts.............so the pipe threads are on the intake side.
By Dan - 15 Years Ago
so...if I were to do this do I want the SBC or Ford part #????
By GREENBIRD56 - 15 Years Ago
You want that AC type part that Dutchy has used in his post.

The '64 Ford truck part has flow "checked " from the threaded end and throttled from the "hose" end.

The AC part has flow throttled from the threaded end and "checked" from the hose end.

The check valve prevents a backfire from blowing back into the valley.  

By sparky213 - 15 Years Ago
I have checked several parts stores and cannot find the AC PCV valve pictured, anyone know of a source or different brand and part number?
By lowrider - 15 Years Ago
I went to NAPA online, put in 63 Chevy BelAir 409 and came up with part #CRB29255. Looks pretty close to the AC part.

I'm going to give that one a try.

Dan

By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago
Look for a PCV valve for an engine around 300 cubic inches.

I saw one at my NAPA store (for a 283 BelAir) and found it is BLOCKED when you blow in the threaded end.  These valves have no arrow or other indicator as to direction of flow.  You have to test each one.

There are lots of pcv valves that can be used, including the "double hose ends" if you want to do your own modification.  Some have an ell at one end, which helps too.

If you have a carb spacer, you can tap the hole and screw a modern PCV into it (available everywhere for three bucks).

By lowrider - 15 Years Ago
I did some more research on my NAPA pcv# CRB29255. Fits 63 Tbird & Galaxies 390 engine. Also fits 62 Galaxie with a 292. That must be the pcv valve shown in the epay ad for the part that installs in the valley pan (early Calif. emissions?). Shouldn't cost but a few bucks (I'm lucky, get %10 over cost at NAPA). If it doesn't work, I'll check out the Corvette site mentioned.
By lowrider - 15 Years Ago
I received my NAPA Pcv valve today. Tried it out on a car here in the shop and it works opposite of the way I need it. I guess I'll plumb it in for now and keep looking for one that works the right way.
By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
I wouldn't use it at all if it doesn't work as needed.
By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago
All you had to do was blow into the threaded end.  PCV's are check valves in one direction, so you don't blow backfire into your crankcase.

The one you bought can be used if you screw it into a 1" carburetor spacer.
You cannot screw it into your valley pan or block.

See previous posts.

By Dan - 15 Years Ago
so if I install a pcv like the ac one can I block off the road draft tube on the drivers side of the block???
By charliemccraney - 15 Years Ago
Dan (5/6/2009)
so if I install a pcv like the ac one can I block off the road draft tube on the drivers side of the block???




Yep!
By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
Simplyconnected posted above that a pcv valve is a check valve to prevent a backfire from entering the crankcase.  This is simply incorrect information.  A pcv is an ORIFICED check valve, which means it has full flow in one direction and restricted flow in the other.  (Ref: '65 GM factory shop manual, '68 Ford/Merc factory shop manual, '68 Chilton repair manual).

The valve is installed so that under high vacuum conditions, ie idle, the pintle moves away from the full flow position to allow a small amount of air to flow.  At low vacuum conditions, ie cruise, the pintle moves to the full flow position for maximum scavenging.  At idle, if the valve were full open, it would be a huge vacuum leak.  A backfire would be the opposite of high vacuum, since it is pressure.  The pintle would move to full flow and would not restrict the backfire pressure from entering the crankcase.  If the system is workinig properly, there shouldn't be any explosive gases in the crankcase anyway.

I found an old pcv in my box of "stuff" this morning that works properly when threaded into the crankcase, ala Dutchy's installation.  It is an AC #CV590C.  Unfortunately I can't reference what size engine it came from.  Anyione have an AC catalog?

By lowrider - 15 Years Ago
I saw that number on CorvetteCentral.com. while searching for a cross reference to CV726C. Fits a 62-64 Corvette. Didn't say what engine. And thanks for that last post. That NAPA part #29255 and Standard #V100 does cross from CV726C
By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
Those corvettes would have 327 engines, so the valve should be OK on a Y Block.  Same valve probably fits other 327s of that era, not just corvettes.  I forgot to mention in my last post, the Chiltons manual has info for test proceedures of carb calibrations.  You put a plug in the pcv hose with a drilled hole to replicate the restriction of the valve.  The largest engines only used a 1/8" hole. 
By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago
Hoosier Hurricane (5/7/2009)
Simplyconnected posted above that a pcv valve is a check valve to prevent a backfire from entering the crankcase.  This is simply incorrect information.  A pcv is an ORIFICED check valve, which means it has full flow in one direction and restricted flow in the other.  (Ref: '65 GM factory shop manual, '68 Ford/Merc factory shop manual, '68 Chilton repair manual)...
  Oh John, be very careful and don't blow up the poor guy's engine.  Should the intake manifold's pressure be higher than that of the crankcase (which can happen in a turbo charged engine or under certain conditions, such as an intake backfire), the PCV valve closes to prevent reversal of the fuel mixture into the crankcase.

I didn't stutter when giving that advice.   Ford had Paxtons back in Y-Block days, but they separated intake from crankcase gasses.  If intake pressures EVER get higher than crankcase, that valve is not supposed to inject even the smallest amount of blended air/gas mixture into the crankcase.  In fact, if the PCV doesn't stop like a check valve, DON'T USE IT!

You may have missread your manuals, John.  Could you scan those sentences to share with us?  I think you are confused about when the PCV operates at idle speed (most vacuum) and 'most restricted' flow.  I'm sure the manuals are calling this condition a controlled orfice.  As the vacuum goes down under normal driving speed, the valve lets more crankcase air in.  At Wide Open Throttle (zero vacuum), the PCV is about useless.

Dave Dare

By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
Dave:

I have 3 Paxton blown '57 Fords.  Of course the intake is separated from the crankcase. There weren't pcv valves in '57.  All three of my cars are equipped with road draft tubes.

As for the manuals, I didn't mis read them.  Sorry, I can't scan, but I'll mail you copies if you need to see them.  Do you have access to any Ford manuals of that era?  Remember, except for Corvairs and Olds F-85s, there weren't turbocharged cars then.  Corvairs had draft tubes, I don't know about F85s.  My GM manual is Buick, no turbos in '65.  No turbo '68 Fords either.  That's why there wasn't a section in the manuals about pcvs and turbos.  I stand by my statement.  Thanks for your input.

By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago

Hoosier Hurricane (5/10/2009)
...I stand by my statement.  Thanks for your input.

You cited reference to two service manuals but are unable to share the wording about PCV valves from them, and you are absolutely SURE you didn't misread about the operation of PCV valves.  I guarantee NONE of them indicate the PCV valve allows fuel mixture into the block area.

John, this is a VERY serious safety issue (at Ford Motor, we classify it as 'double-inverted delta'), the highest, most lawsuit-prone concern.  We ALL need a full understanding of how a PCV works and how explosive 14.7:1 Air/Fuel ratio is.  The possibility of mixing fuel mixture into a block cannot happen.

Whether naturally aspirated or not, the bottom end of a crankcase can be like a flame-throwing  blowtorch, especially in old engines.  All of our Y-Blocks are old, now.  I tore mine down and measured ring end-gaps of .200".  By design, piston rings rotate.  At some point they all align for a time, sucking oil up and shooting flames down.

Since backfire alone can be dangerous, PCV valves close completely in one direction (like a check valve) preventing air/fuel mixture from entering the crankcase.  ALL of your manuals will explicitly indicate this.  According to your statement, you need a better understanding of how a PCV valve operates:

Hoosier Hurricane (5/7/2009)
...A backfire would be the opposite of high vacuum, since it is pressure.  The pintle would move to full flow and would not restrict the backfire pressure from entering the crankcase.  If the system is workinig properly, there shouldn't be any explosive gases in the crankcase anyway...
  Absolutely NOT TRUE.  Nobody can predict a backfire.  John, you need to retract this and rethink how things really work.

If you need further references here they are.  Click on the wording for each link:
"Operation: Should the intake manifold's pressure be higher than that of the crankcase (which can happen in a turbo charged engine or under certain conditions, such as an intake backfire), the PCV valve closes to prevent reversal of the exhausted air back into the crankcase again."  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

"One really comforting feature of the PCV valve is its behavior in the event of a backfire. If your car backfires in the manifold, the pressure makes the spring close the valve completely. With the valve closed, there is no chance that the flame can move into the crankcase and cause an explosion."  http://www.innerauto.com/Automotive_Systems/Exhaust_System/Pcv_Valve/

"The PCV valve controls the amount of vapors pulled into the intake manifold fromt the crankcase.  It also acts as a CHECK VALVE by preventing the flow of air from entering the crankcase in the opposite direction." - Pg.24 Chilton's Repair Manual (Part No. 8314) Thunderbird/Cougar 1983-92

This is straight out of one of my Chilton's manuals.  I've asked you to share with us, your reference manuals.  The invitation is always open.

Dave Dare

By Ted - 15 Years Ago

Dave.  Here are the picture posting instructions in case you missed them in the past threads.

Generalized picture posting instructions

For those of us on dial up, your particular picture hosting site inhibits the threads in which you insert picture links from coming up in a speedy manner.  Thanks.

By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago

Ted, the pictures don't exceed 600 pixels wide, have a hard return before and after, and my host server is Comcast.  Comcast is known for fast speed, but on occassion, they are slow or they go down, during maintenance.  Dial-up users will never see color pictures very fast, especially if their baud rate is lower than 56K/sec. 

Does anyone NOT see any of my pictures?  If so, let me know.

Thanks for the 'heads-up' Ted.  I'm surprised I haven't heard from Hoosier John, yet.
-  Dave

Hey, BTW- http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/FindPost26072.aspx this thread has several color pictures at 800pix wide.  Both Ted and Hoosier are moderators there too, but I didn't see a complaint about dial-up.
By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
Dave, you haven't heard from me because I'm dealing with a pre-64 Y block and late '60s era pcv systems, not emission controlled '93 model cars.  Crucify me if you want because I don't have the equipment to copy and send stuff electronically.  I offered to snail mail the pages to you, but never received any hint you wanted them not any address to send them to.  My last statement on my previous post says what I mean to say about it.
By simplyconnected - 15 Years Ago
John, I simply asked you to quote the description of your PCV valves from your reference pages.  You refused to do that because the words would prove you wrong.  I don't care who is right or wrong.  What I care about is preventing personal injury from an exploding engine.

Two references I cited above are not year specific.  PCV valves haven't changed, either.  They vary in size and configuration (straight or ell, threaded or not), but they all work exactly the same way.

Retrofitting a new PCV to an old engine block is easy, but must be done properly.  If you had a good understanding of the operation of any generic PCV, you would not have made your false and dangerous statements.  Do your homework and never criticize correct safety information.  I only pray nobody gets hurt.

To my fellow Y-Block restorers and enthusiasts:
PCV's rarely get changed because they last so long under normal wear.  Some books ask you to rattle as an indication that it is still good.  That is NOT a good indication because the spring can be broken (and it will still rattle).  Also, make sure your PCV blocks in the backflow direction to prevent explosive gasses from entering your block.

Dave Dare
Ford Motor Co., Dearborn

By Hoosier Hurricane - 15 Years Ago
Dave:

I did not refuse to quote because I would be proven wrong.  I'll go ahead and quote, but you still have the option of telling me again that I can't read, or that I changed the wording.  Here goes, 1968 Ford/ Mercury manual, section 8-33, under the heading "CLOSED CRANKCASE VENTILATION SYSTEM": The first part of the explanation tells how the air gets into the crankcase and how it circulates within it.  Do you want that quoted too?  Then it continues:  "During idle, intake manifold vacuum is high.  The high vacuum overcomes the spring pressure and moves the valve to the low speed operation position (Fig. 10).  With the valve in this low-flow position he ventilating air passes between the valve (jiggle pin) and the outlet port.  In this position there is minimum ventilation but it never completely seals off the air flow.

     As engine speed increases and manifold vacuum decreases, the valve spring forces the valve to the full open position (Fig 10).  This increases the flow of ventilating air."  End of explanation.  Next words on the page are the heading for the next section, "EXHAUST EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEMS".  I would go ahead and quote the GM manual, but if I can read it correctly, it says essentially the same thing.  So does the Chilton.  I quoted the Ford manual for your benefit, Ford man that you are.

Now to my fellow Y Blockers on this site.  I apologize for extending this thread to this extent, and I will have nothing further to add.  Thank you for bearing with me.

By Cactus - 15 Years Ago
John, I believe that you are correct, nonetheless we don't need this kind of confrontation on this site and I congratulate you on your restraint..  Keep up the good work with your vehicles and good luck with the "Hurricane"'  Thanks for all your help on this site. 
By marvh - 15 Years Ago
  Here is a picture of the Ford PCV valve from a 68 Mustang/Cougar manual. If you look close you will follow the operation of it.

When engine is at idle with high vacuum the jiggle pin moves toward the right when vacuum has overcome the spring and closes down the flow past the jiggle pin where marked "to intake manifold" on top picture, you will notice the spring is more collapsed in this condition and the rear of the jiggle pin is more open.

When engine is in high speed operation/low vacuum the jiggle pin is more toward the left with a greater opening on the "to intake manifold end", however the "from crankcase end" is more closed and restricting the flow caused by the spring. Notice the flat end on the jiggle pin by the dual arrow at the "from crankcase or rocker cover" end. Air flow does not pass through the jiggle pin. It passes around it as the jiggle pin is a solid piece with no through hole.

If in a backfire or blowback condition the jiggle pin will more toward the left (ie) pressure has come from "to the intake manifold" end forcing the jiggle pin towards the left and closing off the orifice hole to the "from crankcase or rocker cover" end by the flat end of the jiggle pin.

marv

By Eddie Paskey - 15 Years Ago
ENOUGH SAID!!!    And God Bless You All    Eddie
By Moz - 15 Years Ago
sorry guys like cereal killer i cant stand it any longer

any guy that can get his car out of a shed after winter put it on a truck & without raising the hood can pull 11sec runs on a drag strip knows what he's doing, i believe the original thread of dutchys was a simple re-post of his old thread which seems to have got highjacked .

btw dave as you have only been with us a short time the reason your specified thread from mr4sppedford didnt get told about picture posting is john may have broadband so he woudnt have trouble loading it & as ted hasnt said anything its possible being as busy as he is may not have seen that post yet & both are the moderators for the whole site as jim the owner cant keep an eye on everything while he works in the back ground so we can all benefit from y-blocks forever. thats all im going  to say.

By lowrider - 15 Years Ago
Amen Cereal Killer. After 40+ years as a mechanic in Ford dealers, I have never seen a crankcase explosion and have only heard secondhand stories about them. If your car is running so bad it might have a crankcase explosion, you have more problems than a wrong PCV valve.
By birdinparadiseRPARGL - 6 Years Ago
Aloha!
My 312 has the road-vent tube w/ canister on the lower left (drivers side) of the block.  There is no hole up on top rear of the block by the distributor.  Anybody know of some adapter kit or recommended way to simply utilize the existing road tube or that location for PCV.  I do have a 4BBL mounted carb spacer already with a blocked tube I can use to pull fumes in.  
Mahalo!
By Ted - 6 Years Ago
birdinparadiseRPARGL (6/8/2018)
Aloha!
My 312 has the road-vent tube w/ canister on the lower left (drivers side) of the block.  There is no hole up on top rear of the block by the distributor.  Anybody know of some adapter kit or recommended way to simply utilize the existing road tube or that location for PCV.  I do have a 4BBL mounted carb spacer already with a blocked tube I can use to pull fumes in.  
Mahalo!

Welcome to the site.
PCV valves do need to be as high up in the engine as possible to take advantage of heat rising which helps in removing cold start moisture residuals and other contaminants.  Attempting to hook up the PCV valve at the lower block road draft tube opening never has good results simply due to too much oil spraying around in that area and that oil getting picked up in the lower mounted PCV valve and sucked back into the cylinders.  Valve covers and the valley cover are the accepted locations for a PCV valve.

 
Here are links to a couple of past threads giving some more details on PCV valves.
Crankcase evacuation
Why a PCV valve or system? 
By Kahuna - 6 Years Ago
Just saw this old thread today.
Whether there is/was any confrontation doesn't matter to me at all.
I learned a lot & appreciate the education.
I'd like to know what one does for  PCV on a modified engine with low vacuum?
How's that accomplished? Maybe I'll start a new thread.
Jim
By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
I hate food fights (well, not really) but there seems to be a little confusion on this subject.

Just because one has never seen a crankcase explosion does not mean they do not occur. The valve is also a safety device for the system in that it shuts off the crankcase from the intake manifold in case of an intake manifold backfire.

The PCV valve will also protect the engine in case of a backfire, which causes a sudden high-pressure pulse in the intake manifold. This forces the PCV valve closed so that the backfire flame can’t reach the crankcase, where it could ignite flammable fumes and cause damage.


SOURCE- http://dannysengineportal.com/pcv-positive-crankcase-ventilation-valve-faq/