Finned valley pan


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By BFOOTER03 - 16 Years Ago
Does anybody make a finned valley pan with the breather?  Would prefer an aluminum one but not required.  Found a posting back from 06 and at the time nobody made one.  Prefer the breather in valley pan vs the valve covers.  Has anybody added a breather to a finned pan before. 

Here is where my interest arised from.


By MoonShadow - 16 Years Ago
Mine was done on a mill with the head angled to match the tube angle on a tin cover. The hole was cut so that a s@#b chrome filler fit tight in it. Looks good and no leaks (so far). Chuck in NH
By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
Bfooter: Maybe I misunderstand your question, but as pointed out there is almost no room for a separate breather in the valley pan. Your existing screened Oil Filler Cap is also the breather. Make sure it's kept clean. And no I wouldn't cut breathers into a set of original T.Bird covers either. Is there a lower draft tube breather on the drivers side of the engine? Or a draft tube breather at the back of the valley pan? .. and that's a nice photo of your engine!
By BFOOTER03 - 16 Years Ago
Paul perhpas I was not clear enought.  I am not wating to add an additional breather to the valley pan but looking for afinned one that has an oil filler like the OE pans do.  I would like to take credit for the engine but its just a picture I found on the net.
By 2DRHRDTP57 - 16 Years Ago
 

I purchased a Vintage Speed item and then had a fill tube hole machined into it in the exact same spot as the original pan referenced off the bolt that mounts the pan. worked out pretty good, I shortened the tube also as the original stuck out like a sore thumb.

By GREENBIRD56 - 16 Years Ago
Nice work Dutchy - and the photo nails it...........

Those covers are beautiful when you've got a new motor to admire. But how are you guys going to keep that set of fins clean?

My machinist suggested that it would help to take it over and have it anodized or powder coated clear - and another suggested chrome plate.

By bird55 - 16 Years Ago
I think I might be getting one of those Valley covers in time for Christmas!?
By davis - 16 Years Ago
that looks slick.

nice proportions with the fill tube being cut down.


By 2DRHRDTP57 - 16 Years Ago
Yeah, I have clear coated all the alloy accessories from our friend and fellow Y blocker Frank and also the valley cover, I guess they just look that damn good i will find a way of cleaning em if they do need it, Cant wait to get it in and runnin , but I guess I will just have too.... as boyd said, it aint magic its hard work, (he forgot to mention its also money...)

Cheers

By BFOOTER03 - 16 Years Ago
Nice engine Dutchy.  That is exactly the look I am after.  Can't imagine that a finned pan with a filler would not sell well.  Regardless its nice to know it can be done or should I say will be done again.  Clear power coating would be choice for keeping it clean.  Thanks
By marvsmerc - 16 Years Ago
Wow, Dutchy's engine brings back memories when My engine was on a stand with all new paint & goodies quite a few years ago. Looks very nice. Guess I'll put a little elbow grease into freshening mine up after seeing yours.  Anyhow, I had a machinist friend of mine bore the hole into my finned valley cover. He angled it approximetly the same as the original.  I made up the breather spout using 1 1/2" o.d. aluminum & I rounded the edges on top of the pipe. Works great & is better than having those rubber gromments in your valve cover.      Mike
By bird55 - 16 Years Ago
Hey thanks Ted-it looks perfect, Delivery sounds fine. Engine is just now back in the car with other sewups to do. That's exactly what we talked about. Let me know what I owe you and I'l go ahead and send it.


By Daniel Jessup - 16 Years Ago
Ted anyway that you could give us the part number to that grommet and the size of your valley pan hole for the grommet? What pcv valve do you recommend?

Not trying to hijack the thread - but would think others might want to know...

Dan

By 2DRHRDTP57 - 16 Years Ago
Daniel Jessup (12/7/2008)
Ted anyway that you could give us the part number to that grommet and the size of your valley pan hole for the grommet? What pcv valve do you recommend?

Not trying to hijack the thread - but would think others might want to know...

Dan

Nice work TED I like your style, Interested to know also what PCV valve you used, I purchased one for a 68 Camaro on ebay its a AC Delco part not a scrub part by the way, and fitted it, i drilled and tapped it 1/4 NPT into one of the early linkage mount holes in the block whilst I had the motor apart, I have checked the direction of flow and its correct as per the instruction sheet that came with it.

 

By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
Dutchy -  I like your approach to drilling and tapping the block for the PCV valve.  Thanks for sharing an alternative method for PCV valve installation.  Indeed a case where you were thinking outside the box cover.

 

Likewise for Me Dutchy, I have a PCV and grommet in a stock valley cover made for a breather and it comes too close to the back of my Edelbrock 3x2 intake. I wish I would of thought of this.  Smile

By miker - 16 Years Ago
I used a similar Moroso grommet/baffle combination some years ago with no problems. When I put the valley pan on a new larger motor with a high volume oil pump, I picked up enough oil off the dist. gear (apparently) to get a load of oil into the motor, cause detonation, and blow two head gaskets in two dyno runs, both on number 7.  I welded an aluminum baffle in underneath, with the holes pointing forward and have not had a problem since.  You can also buy an oil fill tube for a 69 Z28, plain or chrome, with a sealed fill cap and a bung for the PCV valve in that location.
By marvsmerc - 16 Years Ago
A little confused here on the pcv gromment pictures with the baffle in it. What is the purpose of it? Mine functions great without it, so I was wondering why it was needed as it would complicate the installation, which I always like to keep as simple as possible.   Maybe I was "lucky" !   Mike
By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
The baffle keeps the oil from being slung/splashed directly on the PCV valve so you don't suck it into the intake. If you don't have one and haven't had any problems, it's not unusual, not all PCVs have baffles . BigGrin
By aussiebill - 16 Years Ago
Hi ted, like the electric water pump adaption, i,m assuming this is for race application and would it work in street car/hotrod as regular pump with out getting overworked. i realise it would only come in once preset temp switch clicked it on? Thanks, Aussie bill.
By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
Mike,

by the way, i love the looks of your Merc. I would like to see some more angels. Smile

By marvsmerc - 16 Years Ago
Thanks Tim, I also like to compliment you on your beautiful family including your cars, of course. ! Nice to see on here!  My cars are put away as it is winter here with cold and snow, but you can see a few more pictures of my Merc if you punch in capitoldistrictcruisers.com into google. A buddy of mine talked me into going down there & what a cruise in it was-over 1000 cars & I was one of the lucky one's............        Mike

Merry Christmas  & a Very Happy & Healthy New year to all!!

By 55Birdman - 16 Years Ago
Those valley covers on Ebay are Charlie Prices at Vintage speed. You can get them direct from him if you call and tell him you saw it on ebay. Thats what I did.
By Johnson Rod - 16 Years Ago
Much cheaper than buying it online. Good tip. Here's the link to Vintage Speed if anyone likes to browse??

http:/www.vintagespeed.com
By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
Charlie Mc,

I agree with everything Ted has mentioned.  I use an electric Moroso belt drive to run the water pump on the race truck.  I have never been sure of the flow numbers vs. stock fan belt, but in two years in high temp tracks (Bonneville and El Mirage) I have never over heated.  Like he says, besides the horsepower gain, allowing the engine to cool down faster after turning off the ignition is what works best for me.  Can you imagine what would happen if the engine was close to the boiling point when I turned the engine off and had the conventional system?  It would be boiling in no time.  By the way, I also use an electric fan to move air across the radiator during the cool down.

I like your idea of having the system available for weekend drag racing.  With the electric motor in place, a simple swap of the fan, fan belt and pulley to a Moroso belt drive gear on the water pump shaft and you are off to the staging lanes.  This would help solve a problem I saw at the Y-Block shootout.  When competitors were in both the Y-Block and regular bracket racing,  they were going around so fast it was difficult to get the engine cooled down enough to start the next race.  This is a small factor in Harry's and Ted's success, but it does give them a competitive edge to run consistent dial-ins.

BFOOTER3, sorry for getting off the trail of your post, sometimes it is just too temptingSmile

This site just keeps getting better and better.................

By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
Charlie,

In reply to your question of using existing bolt holes in the bracket, yes, I did.  It was an easy fabrication to mount it to the right two side bolts in the timing cover.  I did need to use longer bolts and space it out for alignment with the Moroso water pump pulley.  It would appear that there would be and interference between the bracket and motor with the stock water pump pulley.  Perhaps you could install and remove the whole Moroso unit before and after a race.  It wouldn't be that much trouble.  

By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
P.S.  As you may be able to see in the picture, I had to notch the top of the generator bracket for the bottom of the electric motor inorder to use the Moroso bracket "as is".  If you wanted to keep the generator bracket in tact, you would have to modify the Moroso bracket to raise the electric motor a couple of inches. 
By BFOOTER03 - 16 Years Ago
Is a baffle is needed on the aluminum pan if I opt not for a PCV valve?  Mine has a canister and down tube on the drivers side of the block and not a road draft tube.  Does anybody know if a cover is availale so I could convert over to a PCV valve and get rid of the canister and down tube?
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
I think the covers Mummert is producing will have provisions for the stock breather. It wouldn't be difficult to drill a cast cover for a breather but space is limited on the valley cover.
You can use a similar process as described here: http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic3719-3-1.aspx?
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
Ted, have you used those grommets?  I used some and they were horrible.  They baffle well but they also add a significant restriction to the breathing ability.  I had two of those grommets with one breather in each valve cover and the pressure would blow the dipstick out a few inches.  Switching to the regular grommets fixed it.  But I do need to epoxy a baffle in there because a little oil is escaping. I think it's best to install a propper baffle and use regular breather grommets.
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
I like the setup on Harry's car. It's a pretty simple design and easy to switch back to being belt driven - excellent for a weekend racing type of thing.
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
Oh, I didn't realize that is a moroso part. I thought it was something he put together. Hmmm.
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
Cool! I may just add one when I make the new wire harness early next year. Were you able to use the predrilled holes in the bracket or did you have to add one? I notice that they want two bolts for mounting in the instructions.
By Hoosier Hurricane - 16 Years Ago
Charlie:

I don't know if you noticed my setup at EXPO.  I use a heater blower motor with a pulley added to drive the original water pump pulley and fan.  Controlled by a thermostatic switch.  Keeps the Hurricane cool and cools it between rounds, but the downside is current draw, about 10 amps.  After two days of racing and engine cooling, I ran the battery down Sunday morning.  Should have charged the battery overnight, but I thought the alternator would do the job.  I have to think that at speed with ram air coming through the radiator, the fan speeds the water pump up and I get more circulation.

John

By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
I had not noticed it. I'm always staring at your blower. I'll check my pictures. It must be in some of the shots.
By charliemccraney - 16 Years Ago
I would go ahead and put a baffle on. It won't hurt and it will save having to remove the pan later if you find that one is required. Get a small sheet of aluminum from Home depot. It can be shaped with the help of a vise. Epoxy or weld it under the hole in the valley pan. It doesn't have to be too fancy. Just make sure oil will not have a direct path to the hole. If you decide to retain your road draft tube, you will also have to add a provision for fastening it to the valley pan - in this case, I would recommend welding.
By Ted - 16 Years Ago

Seems to be quite a few of those finned covers floating around with added in breather tubes.  Here’s a Y engine with a modified finned valley cover and with an added aluminum breather tube welded in place that was done earlier this year.

 

By Ted - 16 Years Ago
bird55 (12/4/2008)
I think I might be getting one of those Valley covers in time for Christmas!?

Al.  How’s this look?  This is the cover you had drop shipped to me for mods.  Will ship out as soon as I come across a box big enough for shipping which should be early this week sometime.  And here’s also a pair of pictures of a PCV grommet with a built in baffle or shield which eliminates the need for a baffle to be attached to the underside of the valley pan.

 

By Ted - 16 Years Ago
charliemccraney (12/7/2008)
Ted, have you used those grommets? I used some and they were horrible. They baffle well but they also add a significant restriction to the breathing ability. I had two of those grommets with one breather in each valve cover and the pressure would blow the dipstick out a few inches. Switching to the regular grommets fixed it. But I do need to epoxy a baffle in there because a little oil is escaping. I think it's best to install a propper baffle and use regular breather grommets.
Depending upon the grommet, sometimes the shielded opening is not quite large enough and I’ll have to take a razor blade and open it up some more. But I’ve never used these grommets in the valve covers either for breathers or for a PCV valve; have only used them in those instances where a PCV valve needs to go into a valley pan or at the rear of an intake manifold on other families of engines. I don’t have a part number for these particular grommets as I get them in an unpackaged state but I see them being sold by various vendors at swap meets. For the pictured grommet, I use a 1 1/8” hole saw but like with any grommet, I’ll measure it with a pair of calipers and then cut the hole as required. I’ve a bin full of different grommets and they require a multitude of different hole sizes.
.
As far as PCV valve selection goes, I’ll simply pick out one for an engine of a similar cubic inch as the engine I’m fitting it to. For a Y, I’ll use a PCV valve originally designed for a 289 or 302 Ford. Depending upon the specific application I have in mind, I’ll get one with a straight or angled top so there are lots of options in this regard.

By Ted - 16 Years Ago
2DRHRDTP57 (12/7/2008)
Nice work TED I like your style, Interested to know also what PCV valve you used, I purchased one for a 68 Camaro on ebay its a AC Delco part not a scrub part by the way, and fitted it, i drilled and tapped it 1/4 NPT into one of the early linkage mount holes in the block whilst I had the motor apart, I have checked the direction of flow and its correct as per the instruction sheet that came with it.

 

Dutchy -  I like your approach to drilling and tapping the block for the PCV valve.  Thanks for sharing an alternative method for PCV valve installation.  Indeed a case where you were thinking outside the box cover.

By Ted - 16 Years Ago
Ditto to what Tim says.  The shielded grommet is just something that’s convenient and depending upon the application, just saves the hassle of installing a shield under the PCV valve.  These shielded grommets are relatively new so there’s many an older retrofitted PCV valve application that gets by okay without one.  My 272 powered Customline has been using an open sided grommet without an added baffle in the valley pan for over eighteen years without issue but for the most part, it’s driven normally.  But given the option, a little shielding sure can’t hurt.  And as miker  mentions, full throttle operation can potentially throw additional oil at the valve and overload it.
By Jim - 16 Years Ago
I bought one of these from Ebay and then had a friend "Ted" weld the filler/breather tube into the front and put a pcv valve at the back. It is not a flimsy piece and is very good quality.

Link to Aluminum Valley Cover



If you just bid the $55.00 minimum, chances are that you will win it. As soon as your's is sold, he puts another one up.
By Ted - 16 Years Ago
aussiebill (12/10/2008)
Hi ted, like the electric water pump adaption, i,m assuming this is for race application and would it work in street car/hotrod as regular pump with out getting overworked. i realise it would only come in once preset temp switch clicked it on? Thanks, Aussie bill.

The pictured electric water pump is worth an additional 4-5 horsepower over the stock belt driven unit it replaces and is designed to run all the time the engine runs.  There is no on/off switch based on coolant temperature as is typical with an electric fan as it’s important that coolant be circulating or moving around all the time the engine is running.  Estimated life for the electric pump motor is ~500 hours of continuous running.  This pump design is something that was being worked on for the Engine Masters Competition and have since been developing it for the race crowd.  At this point in time, I’m still working on increasing the flow values.  It could potentially be used on a street vehicle but it’s benefits do not outweigh it’s projected life so I couldn’t whole heartedly recommend it in this application except for the WOW factor.  But a plus factor for a street vehicle would be the ability to run the pump after the engine has shut down for a quicker cool down.

By Ted - 16 Years Ago
Charlie refers to the Moroso electric drive that runs a belt from an electric motor to a pulley attached to the factory water pump.  It’s simple and has been around for years for the race crowd and is a proven piece.  The water flow is somewhat limited due to the speed of the electric drive but is sufficient for a race car.  I’ve one of these setups on my ’64 Thunderbolt and has worked well for over twenty five years on that particular application.  Best part is the cooling ability after the engine has been shut down.