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By geo56 - 3 days ago
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I recently replaced all brake shoes, and wheel cylinders on my 56 Victoria with the original single master cylinder and drum brakes. I adjusted each wheel by backing off each star adjuster 9 clicks after the wheel would not spin by hand, leaving no drag at all. A test drive revealed a pull to the right on braking. I then adjusted the left front out by 4 clicks and that seemed to even it out. My question is: Does one need to break in new brake shoes before you can lock up the brakes on a hard stop. The factory service manual advises strongly not to do severe braking for the first 100 miles but I feel like I have to push rather hard on the pedal to stop the car quickly and would have to nearly stand on the brake pedal to lock them up. By the way, I did not have the drums turned as they did not appear to be badly scored. I have more that half a pedal apon engagement and 2 quick pumps gives a little more.
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By miker - 3 days ago
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Most important thing is the arc of the shoes match the drum. And “arc” is almost a lost art. So you may be wearing the high spots in if you did check that.
The other thing I’ve seen, more on disc than drums, is a very hard material. Lifetime warranty, never wear out. Most people with power brakes don’t notice the difference.
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By geo56 - 3 days ago
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I think you are right about the shoes needing to be arched. Last time I put brake shoes on this car I let them wear in for several months and then re adjusted them . Braking was much better. I don't think anyone in Tulsa would re arch brake shoes.
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By MoonShadow - 3 days ago
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Check around shops that specialize in brakes but stay away from the corporate shops they generally do not have the age of experience required to answer your question. Smaller local shops may help. They may know of a shop that still can re-arch shoes. Used to be done anytime drum brakes were installed.
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By geo56 - 3 days ago
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I am guessing that back then the guy who arched the brake shoes also used a brake shoe riveter to rivet on new linings. My shoes are bonded.
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By KULTULZ - 3 days ago
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BURNISHING NEW BRAKE MATERIALS - https://www.wagnerbrake.com/technical/technical-tips/break-in.html
Usually the drums are cut to the new shoes diameter(s) making them true and rid them any old material residue(s) allowing full contact with the drum. If not, it is going to take time for the new shoes to seat to the drum (circumference). During that seating period you may have to make several service adjustments.
To adjust shoes -
Run shoes up to full drum contact with the drum. Back off until you can spin the wheels about three quarters of a turn.
Apply brake pedal (to center the brake shoes). Adjust tight again and back off until the drag gives you about three quarters of a turn with a hard spin. Adjust parking brake.
Now all of this is considering a good hydraulic system, a good quality lining (which is hard to find in a box store) and good brake show hardware.
Installing self-adjuster kits will alleviate the constant adjusting procedure and give longer wear.
If you run a finger into the MC reservoir hitting bottom, what if anything comes out on your finger?
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By MoonShadow - 3 days ago
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That part is true back when shops actually rebuilt the brake shoes but the re-arching continued for many years after that ended. You did give me a thought though, check for restoration shops in your area they may have a source that replaces brake shoes and may be able to re-arch them.
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By MoonShadow - 3 days ago
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Quick Google search found this one. https://www.brakematerialsandparts.com/brake-relining
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By MoonShadow - 3 days ago
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https://www.google.com/search?q=brake+shoe+relining+near+me&sca_esv=db9c56f3b10e342d&hl=en&sxsrf=AE3TifPEUc7rYbnLWV_L2D-7ynYxveMsoA%3A1751391131562&ei=mxtkaMyBIsef5NoP55yIsAE&oq=brake+sh&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCGJyYWtlIHNoKgIIADIKECMYgAQYJxiKBTIOEAAYgAQYkQIYsQMYigUyCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFMgsQABiABBiRAhiKBTILEAAYgAQYkQIYigUyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABEiGI1AAWJYUcAB4AZABAJgBxwOgAb0IqgEHNi4xLjQtMbgBAcgBAPgBAZgCCKACignCAgQQIxgnwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAg4QABiABBixAxiDARiKBcICERAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGIMBGMcBwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICDhAAGIAEGJECGMkDGIoFwgILEAAYgAQYkgMYigXCAg0QABiABBixAxhDGIoFwgIIEAAYgAQYsQOYAwCSBwc1LjIuNC0xoAfISrIHBzUuMi40LTG4B4oJwgcFMi01LjPIB0I&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:401fdd60,vid:iJPSO-7E_4A,st:0
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By DANIEL TINDER - 2 days ago
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I have to laugh about that recommendation re: ‘no severe braking’. Like you have a choice when that deer darts out in front of you!😁
’Arcing’ shoe linings was common back when labor was cheaper than parts. Original drums on old/high mileage cars were likely turned several times, thus needing shoes with extra tall linings (no longer available). In today’s reversed economy, with truly high quality replacement drums finally available, it may not be worth the effort. NOS drums & asbestos shoes were often a perfect fit, thus breaking in quickly.
BTW: I am perpetually confused re: whether to loosen, or tighten a brake depending on the direction of steering pull. Also, front vs. rear (?).
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By MoonShadow - 2 days ago
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After watching the sand paper video above I think I'll check the fit on my shoes. I'm running all drums and even with them adjusted right I've never been happy on the dragstrip shut down lanes. I usually go all the way to the last turn out. And no I have decided against going with disc's in the front. I had a setup and sold it. Around town the car stops well with a good solid pedal its just from high speed that it worries me. Maybe that's normal but I don't remember having that problem with my 57 Fairlane.
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By KULTULZ - 2 days ago
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BTW: I am perpetually confused re: whether to loosen, or tighten a brake depending on the direction of steering pull. Also, front vs. rear (?).
You need to find the actual cause of the pulling and correct it, not adjust one wheel differently from the others.
As for hard braking, it is meant to go as easy as you can until the shoes are fully seated and grab correctly. Same as a new car in the fifties, drive easily until the engine breaks in.
Shoe arcing went away with front disc and drum self-adjusters. That and asbestos being banned and new equipment having to be fitted with filters to catch the dust from the machine (OSHA),
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By MoonShadow - 2 days ago
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I was once told by an old mechanic that if you adjust the brakes correctly and the car pulls to one side that you need to tighten the other side. Its one is too loose not one is too tight.
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By KULTULZ - 2 days ago
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Well, if the brakes are adjusted correctly and the car pulls, then either the adjustment is not correct or there is a defect somewhere in the system (brake or possibly steering/suspension).
You have four wheel ends and one end is adjusted differently from the other three (four wheel drum).
During a full panic stop lock-up, what do you think could possibly go wrong? These are self-energizing brakes and three lock down before the odd one? That one loose wheel end is also going to cause the other three to work harder, overheat and wear more quickly.
A mechanic/shop that does this will open himself to possible civil (possibly criminal) liability.
Not yelling, just trying to inform.
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By geo56 - 2 days ago
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I'm just a cruiser and a purist and for the way I drive drum brakes are ok with me. Not fully trusting my work, I pulled the front drums off after a test drive yesterday and observed that both star adjusters were wound out evenly with about 1/4 inch of thread exposed. I am hoping that leaves me plenty of adjustment after break in. I lightly sanded the linings with 180 grit as there were some shiny spots. Strange side note: The front shoes that I replaced were bought from Tee Bird Products several years ago and they were riveted as opposed the the bonded shoes that I bought from O'reilleys currently.. With those riveted shoes My drums would not slide back on, even with the adjuster wound all the way in. I ended up grinding the slots on each shoe where the star adjuster slides in place about 1/8 inch more. They functioned ok after that. Looking back, I wonder if the riveted shoes were oversize to make up for drums that were turned. Maybe just China junk . I don't know for sure. Someone else also replied that new drums are now readily available. I checked in my Concours catalogue and they had listed them as made in USA for $189.00 each. Figure in tax and shipping and paying a shop to press in the hubs would really add up. Good to know that new parts are available though. Thank you all for the help. George
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By DANIEL TINDER - 2 days ago
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I assume everyone realizes that shoes with ‘riveted’ linings don’t last nearly as long as ‘bonded’ ones (?). We sometimes forget to specify when ordering from a catalog, but no sense in having to re-do brake work more often than necessary.
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By KULTULZ - 2 days ago
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I assume everyone realizes that shoes with ‘riveted’ linings don’t last nearly as long as ‘bonded’ ones (?).
Why would you say that? OEM was riveted. Those rivets serve a purpose. Bonded linings adhesive (especially current box store off-shore linings) fail more often.
You have to be very careful of where you source brake service parts. You buy by quality, not price.
If you put a set of shoes on and the drum would not slide over, most likely you bought cheap out of spec shoes.
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By DANIEL TINDER - Yesterday
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High quality bonded linings last longer, simply because rivets will eventually score the drums as the linings wear away, while bonded shoes with the same mileage still have plenty of material (and wear) left.
OEM also came with bias ply tires. They didn’t wear very long either.
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By KULTULZ - Yesterday
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High quality bonded linings last longer, simply because rivets will eventually score the drums as the linings wear away, ...
That is the reason for annual brake inspections (service) and STATE INSPECTIONS ...
You don't allow the lining to wear to the rivets.
So a bonded shoe will not damage a drum surface if the lining wears, fails or falls off? If wear is to the rivets, it needs to be serviced.
WANNA SEE A GOOD CAR WRECK - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oO226PgSkg&themeRefresh=1
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By Lou - Yesterday
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Did you replace the grease seals when you replaced the brake shoes ?
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By geo56 - Yesterday
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Yes I did and cleaned and packed bearings.
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