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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Original Load-Matic vacuum advance canister leaks. Does anyone have a Part Number I can use as a reference at Napa Auto Parts?
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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You're not likely to get a replacement at Napa.
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Might you have a recommendation on where to source?
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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R U SURE it is a '54 DIST?
1954 - FAD 12370-A
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Yes It’s the original ‘54 Load-Matic 12127A 422 EDD.
Picture 1 ---Dizzy in Engine
Picture 2 ---'54 Distributer on Left, Rebuilt '57 Distributer on Right (w/Mechanical advance) The '57 will eventually replace the '54 once I have the intermediate shaft to oil pump (Melling IS-60A). Meanwhile I'd like to change the '54 Vacuum canister if someone has a lead on where I can buy it.....?Thanks.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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FDA 12370-A is the LINC PN for 1954.
Even if you found one NOS would the diaphragm be good? If you substituted something close would it t operate correctly with the 1954 LOAD-O-MATIC DIST calibration?
Possibly STANDARD IGNITION but what is the demand for a one year application LYB?
I feel your pain.
Possibly This Source Can Help - https://www.lincolnoldparts.com/
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By paul2748 - Last Year
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Aren't the Lincoln distributors the same as the Fords/ I thought I heard this. If so, would the 54/55 vacuum unit fit? I don't know if these any more available than a Lincoln though.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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Aren't the Lincoln distributors the same as the Fords/ I thought I heard this. If so, would the 54/55 vacuum unit fit? I don't know if these any more available than a Lincoln though.
I don't know (scuttle butt says yes, but who knows?).
The BASE ENG PN (CASTING ID NO) for a DIST HSG is 12143. If you could get this complete CASTING ID NO off both a LYB and FYB DIST, it would be certain. And then you have main shaft design, drive gear changeover and who knows what else? If he pulled the vacuum advance off, he could compare it with a FYB canister image found online.
Now would the FYB advance unit calibration be the same (differing PN's)? Who do we know that works on and can calibrate a LOM DIST these days?
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Thus far I'm having zero luck finding any VC for a 53-56 Ford or Lincoln. I'd settle for any VC that pulls in some advance (ideally 10-12 degrees above 7"Hg ). The one I have must have a big tear ---I tried pulling a vacuum on it with a handheld Mighty Vac to no avail. The canister has no markings but measures 3.7" diameter.
BTW, the engine was running very hot. Think I finally figured out why ----zero vacuum advance so it's running retarded (lugging along on initial timing of 14 degrees). Can't verify until I fix the VC.
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By miker - Last Year
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A shot in the dark. You know the 57 up ford y distributor fits and works with a drive gear change and the oil pump drive, right? So at least the body casting is common. Maybe try the vacuum can from a 54 Ford/Merc (239/256) or a 55 272/292.
They may not be perfect with your 54, or exactly right for your carb, but probably close and a lot better than a leaker with no advance.
There’s a guy on the ford barn, scicala, who rebuilds the carbs and has an excellent reputation. A post over there might get some response as to what might work enough to get you by.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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It is like comparing a FYB DIST to a SBF DIST, it will fit but will it? I know the driven gear count is different between a LYB and FYB.
Here is a FleaBay photo(s) of an FAB 12370-A (1954-56 FORD 239-272) -
https://www.ebay.com/p/1523067050
Again, hold onto the take-out DIST as one day you or another owner may want numbers correct.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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"BTW, the engine was running very hot. Think I finally figured out why ----zero vacuum advance so it's running retarded (lugging along on initial timing of 14 degrees). Can't verify until I fix the VC."
Common LOAD-O-MATIC problem.
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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It's been a ton of years since I adjusted a Load-O-Matic strub and I'm not at home to look for information. As I recall, the calibration is accomplished by the size of the office in the venturi of the carb., the spark control valve and the 2 springs in the strib that control the rate and amount of advance. If you find a Ford VC that has a similar diameter diaphragm, similar rod, it would more than likely be close. Or as stated above, would get you by until you make the change for the dual advance strib.. Hope this helps, good luck............
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Thanks all for the thoughts and ideas guys!
I'm planning on abandoning the original '54's dizzy (original to me) for the '57 dizzy once the intermediate shaft arrives in 3-4 weeks. I believe the '57's dizzy will provide superior street performance since it includes both vacuum and centrifugal advance. Simultaneously I'll also modify the original Holley 2140 "Teapot" to provide full vacuum to the '57 dizzy (Ted's "how to article" is posted on this site) using the original intake manifold. I also have a '57 intake that will be installed with a Edelbrock AVS2 500cfm if the modified Teapot approach fails.
Meanwhile back to the '54 dizzy. I do plan on replacing the VC and holding on to it until someone needs it. The "ebay" offering referenced above is for a 55 Truck which might work. I sent the seller a message asking for dimensions. But due to it's intended application (heavy truck?) it may pull less vacuum advance which is certainly better than none.
While on the related subject of ignition timing what do you guys think of following timing targets for a street 4300lb sled, stock 317ci + Hydramatic, for cruising freeways @ 2800rpm (65MPH):
Initial : 14 degrees
Vacuum Advance: 12 degrees total, beginning @ 7"Hg, max @ 15"Hg
Centrifugal Advance: 22 degrees beginning @ 2100rpm, max @ 4,400rpm
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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"Meanwhile back to the '54 dizzy. I do plan on replacing the VC and holding on to it until someone needs it. The "ebay" offering referenced above is for a 55 Truck which might work. I sent the seller a message asking for dimensions. But due to it's intended application (heavy truck?) it may pull less vacuum advance which is certainly better than none."
The FAB 12370-A is for FYB PASS CAR. It may have a TRUCK APPLICATION.
You have to be careful of seller's on Flea-Bay. Most have no idea of what they are selling.
As for the DIST itself, if not using, consider just leaving alone and if selling post the canister as defective. Someone will want that DIST, preferably undisturbed.
As for the curve on the 1957 368 DUAL ADVANCE, maybe start with the OEM SPECS as the 368 was fairly well pumped up and go up from there if necessary.
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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Looking at your centrifugal timing question, do you mean distributor degrees or crank degrees? Same question for RPM? If you mean 22* crankshaft (11* strib) + 14* initial timing would be 36* total at the crank which would be a place to start. Centrifugal advancing generally starts coming in at around 1100 +/- engine RPM. I don't recall seeing a 57 stock dual advance Y-block strib with these numbers.
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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My timing numbers above are referenced to crankshaft degrees (good question).
In hindsight I probably should have left the 57's 368ci' dizzy centrifugal spring alone. As you guys probably know, changing this dizzy's spring is a B. While the dizzy was being "refreshed" i.e., completely torn down and rebuilt, I asked the fellow to place a new and slightly stiffer spring into it. After assembly the Sun revealed it begins @ 2100 rpm and all in 22 crank degrees by 4400 rpm. Instead of biting the bullet and taking another hour to change the spring again, I opted to install and test it "as-is" in the car. I suspect I'll regret this decision (D, I knew it!) but so goes this game.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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Centrifugal cuts in a lot sooner than you think. If not, there would be a stumble before ported vacuum cuts in. That is why it is important to set initial @ curb idle unless the curve has been modified.
Look @ this TUNE-UP CHART - 1957 FORD 312
You had your distributor recursed on a DIST MACHINE hopefully and they gave you a curve chart?
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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If that's the case, that is, starts to advance at 2100 engine RPM's, you will have a rather lazy performing car. In my experience, most all the Y-block dual advance stribs are somewhat similar in curve. Yes, they can and sometimes need to be adjusted on a machine but most of the time with all else being good, initial timing can get the car performing well enough without spark knock. I would say if the shop still has the strib, I would opt to have it put back the way it was. No advance until 2100 RPM is going to be very sluggish. Look at the last post from KULTULZ, note the specs for the cintrifugal adance curve and you will see where it should be. That is rather typical for most STOCK Ford V8's of the day. BTW, where are you located?
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Your comments make sense and thanks for including the detailed data specs.
The spec states centrifugal all in by 2000 rpm. So mine is way off then. Unfortunately I didn't get a curve ---the mechanic gave me a few data points he wrote down ---Begins at 2100rpm, all in 22 degrees/4,400rpm, 10 degrees/ 2800rpm, 18 degrees/3600. At least I can extrapolate the curve.
Since this car will primarily frequent freeways at 2800 rpm, my total timing should hopefully be 12 initial + 14 vacuum + 10 centrifugal = 36 degrees. I suspected this new curve would not be optimal but decided to roll with it and see what happened (yes it's my first Y block rodeo). From what I'm reading above I'll leave a lot of performance on the table and money at CA tax (gas?) pumps.
How much advance can a 317 accept when cruising at light load? For lean fuel economy can it take 42-44 degrees without detonating?
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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It still appears we're mixing distributor specs with crank specs. The above posted specs are in distributor degrees and rpm's. Just double those figures and that will be what you will get at the carankshaf. The B7A-12127-D spec states the advance starts 1* at 450 rpm. Therefore, at 900 engine rpm's there should be 2* advance at the crankshaft and this is typical. But when you say "begins at 2100rpm" is not logical. As far as 42-44* while cruising and not detonating may require gaining some experience with your setup. There are many variables that come into this equasion. Maybe I missed it but where about are you located?
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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I reside in CA. There's a big welcome sign on Interstate 80 when entering Northern CA . It declares:
Welcome to California
The Land of Fruits and Nuts
Humm, back to Ys. All of the numbers I've listed are indeed crankshaft degrees (multiply cam degrees by 2). I asked the man who rebuilt my '57 dizzy to change the original centrifugal spring for a "new and slightly stiffer" one. Upon testing it on his old Sun machine the new spring turned out to be heck-bunch stiffer. It doesn't budge one click until 2,100 rpm. So you did read the numbers correctly. We briefly deliberated replacing the spring right away but my curiosity got in the way and I volunteered stab it in "as-is" and see what happens (besides wrenching my back playing dizzy inny-outty). There's also a chance the Sun machine's instrumentation was off. Best case outcome ----only my back goes out. Worse case - I must reach into my back pocket for another hour of labor while my back is out.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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What you have had done may well be OK. If the guy had a DIST MACHINE he had to have basic knowledge.
You will not know for certain until you plug it in and fire it. If she rattles (under load), back initial off. If she keeps rattling, you will have to most likely re-curve.
There are curves for a stock application, a warmed up engine, hot street, hot street/strip and full competition. You have to know what you have and where you want to go. And don't forget the DUAL ADVANCE DIST vacuum advance canister is adjustable also.
Here is a BASIC TECH ARTICLE that may help explain -
- https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/index.php
You have a 317 (?) dragging a heavy car with limited carburetion CFM and engine breathing caoacity.
Best of luck to you and the LINCOLN.
All of the above is IMO. Your mileage may vary.
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Great article, thank you!
I'll bump this thread with the initial results once I have the 317ci Lincoln back on the road with a new VC (next week).
The VC I finally found is P/N B5S 12370-A
Meanwhile, Happy Thanksgiving!
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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A great Thanksgiving to you and every one else here.......... Good luck, we'll be watching.
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By KULTULZ - Last Year
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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Installed the replacement VC yesterday. Completely transformed the car. The engine now accelerates smoothly and cruses at freeway speeds with steady vigor. The coolant temperature gauge hovers one click above the centerline instead of being dead-pegged against the H stop. Couldn't be happier!
Or could I? Now I'm left wondering whether I should proceed with swapping this working 2140 Teapot carb+matching distributer combination (VC only) for the '57 Dizzy (VC & centrifugal) + 500cfm Edelbrock AVS2. How much better will the engine perform in terms of power and efficiency with the latter? Only one way to find out huh? Here we go!
Anyone have thoughts on how this will turn out? Will newer combination make a noticeable improvement or just be gilding the lily?
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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Glad to hear the Load O Matic is working correctly. As far as the 57 strib, if it is still set to start advancing at 2100, I think you may have somewhat of what you had with the bad vacuum canister on your LOM. That is, no advance until 2100. With no advance until 2100, I would think the manifold vacuum will be very low under load with retarded timing while trying to gain speed. Just my thoughts................
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By WYEDelta - Last Year
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I had the 57’s distributor centrifugal curve changed. It now starts at 1550 rpm and is all in at 2500 rpm (22 degrees). Hopefully this is close to optimal.
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