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By Deyomatic - Last Year
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Does anyone know what the diameter of the big hole that supports the bearing retainer is on what's PROBABLY from a 1959 Fairlane?
I've got a 3 speed toploader in my Model A coupe behind a '59 292 and it's all working...I have another transmission with OD (AMC Gremlin T-150 with Laycock de Normanville OD) that I want to stick in there but would like to figure out if that bearing retainer is the right diameter as is or if it'll need to be turned down (while it's with the transmission guy) without taking it all apart in case I want to go out for a blast in it.
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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I'm not sure exactly what you are swapping but if you are planning to use the trans pictured, the input shaft looks a lot longer and different than that of a Ford trans. As far as the outside diameter of the bearing retainer, I will be able to take a measurement for you tomorrow, if you still need to know.
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By miker - Last Year
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I’ve been following this over on the HAMB. If I’m reading it right, you’ll need to turn the front bearing retainer about 1/4”. Based on what I did some years ago with the later Ford 4 speed o/d discussed there. A measurement from Ford Dearborn will tell you.
2 of the transmissions to bellhousing bolts will line up. You may have to drill and tap the other 2, it’s not a big deal. The input shaft length I can’t remember. May need a 1/8 or 1/4 inch shortening. That is also not a big deal, I’ve done that on T-5’s. Watch the length of the clutch splines, but that should also not be a problem.
Using the Jeep shifter on the top cover, I don’t have a clue, but it would probably be appropriate for a model A.
Anyone interested in this discussion, here’s the link.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/gear-vendors-with-a-3-speed-toploader-anyone-have-it.1279511/
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By darrell - Last Year
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if the transmission is out of a small block the imput shaft will be 1/2 inch longer.you need to grind 3/8 off.all 4 bolt holes line up.you will need to turn down front bearing retainer.
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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I have a mid 50's 3 speed small mounting bolt pattern transmission which should be typical of the '59 Y-block bell housing you mentioned. It is a passenger car bellhousing, right? The outside diameter of the bearing retainer on my trans is 4 47/64" so I think it would be safe to assume the bellhousing bore would be 4 3/4". I have many questions about your project but anyways, good luck and hope this helps....................
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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If someone has a Y-block car manual trans bellhousing handy, please measure the bore to verify that it coincides whit my dimensions above. Although my trans is a light duty 3 speed, it is a truck trans and may have a different retainer than a car trans. Thanks.............
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By DANIEL TINDER - Last Year
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4.65” approx. (dial caliper).
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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Thanks for posting this. The correct diameter of the hole in a car bellhouising is 4.65". Hope this helps Deyomatic.......................
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By Deyomatic - Last Year
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AWESOME!!! Thanks do much.
I recall one guy saying that the input shaft would need a trim but I thought the jury was out on the bearing retainer. Mikey's reading comprehension skills might be better than mine!
Also wonder if I get down to it and it doesn't line up, maybe my current bearing retainer will bolt into the "new" trans...
This "new" trans came out of a 1976 Gremlin. I didn't even know they existed...I was weighing options for ODs or gear swaps...even thought about one of those Gear Vendors units for the 3 speed toploader that's currently in the car. A couple of the HAMB members suggested this Gremlin trans with the Laycock de Normanville OD. When one guy said he had 14 trouble free years with one behind his Hemi, I figured just about any Hemi would out-torque my 292 so I added that to my hunt...
The Laycocks were primarily used on Triumphs and MGs and Volvos. AMC took a Borg Warner T-150 and had these Laycocks adapted and sold them in a couple models for a couple of years as their OD option. I was fortunate enough to find one and now I have a local guru going through mine. The story goes that Laycock eventually went out of business and what is now Gear Vendors bought them out, beefed up the design and are now selling retrofit kits for popular trannies that are rated over 1000 HP.
This transmission was described as being exactly what I have now, but with a Gear Vendors on it. The case of my current tranny is exactly the same as this one and is running that Jeep top shifter cover on the trans already- one of the factors that led me to this trans- I wouldn't need to cut up my floor. The shifter sits perfectly now so I didn't want to risk changing anything in that tiny Model A interior.
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By miker - Last Year
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Keep us posted on how that works out. Even though they’re kind of rare, the synchro low gear and Laycock units just seems like a perfect combo for a torquey Y block in a light A. The top shift is the icing on the cake. I’ve got a T-5 and a TKO 500 behind y blocks, but that one is just so “period” correct even if it’s a 70’s set up.
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Year
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That trans is way cool! It's been too many years but I kept looking at that pictured trans wondering why it looked familiar. Since it was mentioned it has a synchronized 1st, it's what I have known as the Ford 303 transmission. I believe 3.03" is the distance from the countershaft center to the main shaft center. An excellent very sturdy transmission that can take a lot of torque and abuse and has synchro 1st. Now I see why you are putting the effort into this project. Keep in mind for what it may be worth, the "303" trans was very popular with different ratios etc in the Ford line. From trucks, the big Galaxie's, Falcons and most everything inbetween but not with overdrive on the back end. ,Good luck and as Miker stated: Keep us informed...............
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By Deyomatic - Last Year
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YEAH! Some others were calling it a 3.03 but I just assumed they were talking about the first gear ratio...MY (limited) research suggested that the T150 had a 2.99 1st, 1.75 2nd, and 1.00 3rd...EXACTLY what my current trans has.
Thanks for providing the info on the significance of that 3.03 figure.
I picked up a second shifter set-up and need to swing by the transmission guy's place so he can make sure everything works correctly.
My CURRENT setup has me at 3150 RPM at 65 MPH
This new one would be 2300 @ 65 MPH...2600 @ 75 MPH... in fact, that 3150 figure would get me to 90 MPH.
I will report back...once there is something TO report. Thanks to all.
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By Deyomatic - Last Year
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Well I finally have the transmission back and am trying to put together the list of stuff I'll need. Looks like the bearing retainer is about that 1/4" larger than what I think my hole is going to be.
Miker- for someone who has never turned down a bearing retainer...can you dumb it down for me. I'm assuming that it needs to come off via those 4 bolts...is everything going to crap out at me when I take those bolts out? I assume I'll need to find someone with a lathe. Any other tips?
My "peak to peak" measurement on my output shaft is 1.087" and it's 25 splines. I found a 25 spline (25 -24 with one blind spot- so a missing tooth, I guess) that measures 1.113". The diameter matches the ID on the seal. Do we think that's our guy? Wondering if 0.026" of "play" is acceptable. What about that "dead" spline business?
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By darrell - Last Year
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nothing is going to fall out.take the bellhousing with you to a machine shop and they will cut the retainer to fit.
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By Deyomatic - Last Year
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Thanks Darrell.
Just watched a video of someone removing the bearing retainer on a T10. Makes more sense, now.
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