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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Right now, I've got a '59 292 in my '30 Model A Coupe. The transmission is a 3 speed toploader from the early '60s (non-synchro'd reverse). I THINK it's the wide ratio transmission because there seems to be a big difference between 2nd and 3rd.
The rear is a Dana 41 with 4.27:1 gearing. The tires are 29.5" tall.
On the highway it's spinning at 3200 or so at 65 mph. In Second Gear, at around 30 mph in town it's also spinning close to 3000.
Anyway...I originally thought about getting a 9" rear with more reasonable gearing in it, but then it may not be as fun. Doing the math with a T-5, with two extra gears, and one of them an OD, I think it would be a better option.
1. What would I need to make this work? Clutch Parts, adapters, etc.?
2. Anyone know how much further back my shifter would be coming from a toploader?
3. Anything else that I'm overlooking?
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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This thread is 19 pages long. But the first couple pages gets you started. Well worth reading and referring back to.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-ultimate-t-5-article.171291/
I’ve got a WC T-5 behind a 320 stoker in my 55 bird, and a TKO 500 behind the 340 F code clone in my roadster. All the adapter parts came from Mummert, and they all went together fine. There’s some options now that weren’t available time (17-18 years ago) that I did mine. You’ll find that a John’s site . In an A, you’ll want the T5. The TKO was overkill in my 32, and a b….. to fit in.
http://www.ford-y-block.com/
Various models used different shifter locations, sometimes you can swap tailshafts and modify that. The HAMB article address it.
Different models had different torque ratings. That’s in the HAMB article. You’ll need to look at that in terms of your driving style and rear tires. A good 292 with wide tires will hurt a low torque model if you spend a lot of time hammering it.
The big deal is the gear ratios. With a 4.27 rear, even with tall tires, you don’t need the deep first gears, and some are really deep. You’ll probably want a taller 5th. Both mine have 2.9? 1st, and 0.8 5th. In both cases I should have used a little deeper (bigger number) 1st and the 0.68 or so 5th. Yblock have pretty good torque curves, and I didn’t account for that (and mine are stroker motors). But the close ratios are fun to play around with.
It’s very doable, will be a great combination, and all the problems can be pretty easily solved. Just some research and home work, and a clear idea of where you want to end up.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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You will need a T-5 from a 87-93 Fox mustang, or buy a world class T-5Z, 292 car bell housing, Mummert adapter, clutch disc for T-5 spline 11", C-4 transmission yoke for the drive shaft, 57-59 Fairlane speedometer cable, custom drive shaft, '66 289 C-4 transmission mount, pilot bushing, throw out bearing. You can use the stock Ford flywheel, pressure plate. I used a Hurst Competition plus shifter for Corvette/Impala but you can search the site for all the variable shifters and their handles. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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With the T5s 2.95/3.35 1st gear, you won't be in first very long/w 4.27 gears. Depending on their axle ratio, some Fox Body Mustang drag racers launched in 2nd gear. 1982 5.0 Mustangs were equipped with a 4-speed transmission, but 4th was OD. I'm sure it had a taller 1st than the T5. I don't know the nomenclature for that transmission or it's torque rating, but it might better suit you (if you can find one). I wouldn't consider any T5 that wasn't designed for a V8.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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I'll have to check out that HAMB post. Thanks. It's bookmarked now. I really don't know what I'm going to do, yet.
Thanks for all the info, gents. I was ONLY going to find a World Class model. Not that my 292 is a torque monster by ANY stretch, but why take the chance.
I would LOVE to know more about that 4 speed OD model, I have only "researched" one but it didn't look like a strong option.
I have had ZERO luck getting any contact back from Mummert. I've tried to buy two things from him in the past couple of months and have still not gotten a call or an email back. I am not trying to say anything bad about him because it's great that he's making and selling stuff for us, just saying I wish I could purchase through the website.
Anyone know anything about the MDL (Modern Drive Line) adapter?
As for the bellhousing- how do I tell which one I already have?
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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The transmission used in the 1982 Mustang 5.0 is the SROD. Ford also used 4-speed transmissions/w OD in the Granada and in trucks. Those transmissions were based on the Toploader. Here is where I found the information: vintage-mustang.com/threads/srod-other-4-speed-od.364835/
Sorry, but for whatever reason, I couldn't attach the link.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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The strongest T5's are from the late 80's early 90's 5.0 Mustangs. I purchased my adaptor from MDL. MDL also designed and manufactures a very high quality extension housing for the T5 that moves the shift lever about 4 - 5" ? forward. Both above items fit and worked excellent. I can't find the pictures I have but couple years ago I did post them on this forum. Good luck with this, it will be well worth the effort.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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The vintage mustang link 55blacktie posted is well worth reading. I had one of the ford 4sp over’s in my bird for a while. With 4:11’s and a little smaller tire (26”), I found myself shifting into 2nd in the Safeway parking lot, and I don’t drive fast in parking lots.
I did the change to get a synchro 1st gear. Everywhere I go in the greater Seattle area is 500 ft downhill, and 500 ft uphill coming home. In heavy traffic on the hills, the non synchro first in the T-86, and constantly trying to double clutch down just became a pain.
The .8 or so o/d is not as nice as the .7 in the T-86 I took out of the car. I ended up with a T-5, and 3.73 rear gears in the Dana 44.
Changing the gears in the Dana is a pain, and I don’t know what’s available or interchanges between a 41 and a 44. So look at all the ratios closely. Adjust based on your usage.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks for all of the continued information...
I am thinking that if I don't start buying parts, I'll never do it.
Is it possible to ID my bellhousing from these photos? I like the MDL website, and while some of their transmission offerings seem a bit pricey, they also seem to have some nice options that would make installation simpler.
Here are my photos...
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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By paul2748 - 2 Years Ago
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All standard shift bellhousings are pretty much the same, right from the 239 up to the 312.. The exception is the truck bellhousings
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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Paul’s right about the car bells. All the truck bells I’ve seen have the large ears for the rear engine mount (the front is the steady rest style under the dampener). What I don’t know is whether the truck had 2 bells-one for the 3 speed and one for the granny low 4 speed. I can’t tell from your pictures which bell you’ve got. Some truck bells have a boss for a hydraulic slave cylinder, some don’t.
Just been too long since I looked at mine.
What are you using for engine mounts?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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That is correct - all car y-block manual bell housings are the same. The pics you posted are of a common Y-block standard trans bell housing so you're good. The truck is a different animal as stated above with the mounting ears, it is also about 1" deeper due to the ears and is available with 2 different trans bolt patterns, the common 3 speed trans and the larger pattern granny gear 4 speed, also stated above. I did the T5 conversion in my 64 F100 and that presented different challenges than a car. Finding a rebuildableT5 form a 5.0 Mustanag will be a challenge or, new ones are available. Will need to consider the cost of a core, the cost to PROPERLY rebuild it as opposed to a new one. I installed a 3.5 gear in the rear axle and any higher than that would probably make 1st gear useless in my case. I can't stress enough what a wonderful inprovement a T5 is behind a Y-block. It modernizes the driving dynamics of our Y powered vehicles. Get the ratios correct and it's not much different than driving a 5.0 Mustnag, at least on a straight run. It is the upgrade that I feel made the most bang for the buck.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks for the info everyone. Do I want the adapter that's clocked 5* or the straight one for a Model A?
I honestly don't think there's THAT much room between the tranny and the floor.
Dearborn- does your trans have the 3.27 first gear? With my 4.27s out back, I would be looking for the 2.9 (or whatever) first....I suppose I could study the numbers and even if First turned out to be useless I would just consider it a 4 speed with a granny gear. 
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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I don'tr remember the gear ratios of my T5. It's from a 90 Mustang GT and this info should be in my notes or on the net. I'll look and report later. I think 30X9.50 R15 LT 30" diameter tires help keep the revs down some. 1st gear is ok but for my strickly street driving I wouldn't want any more than the 3.5 rear that's in the truck now. 1st winds out prety quick making a shift to 2nd necessary just before conpleting a corner, for example. My adapter is the one clocked straight up but I can't say what would be best for your "A" chassis.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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3.35
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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You are correct, my T5 1st gear ratio is 3.35 - been too many years.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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I went back and read the whole post. Thinking about the 4.27 rear gears, and your original complaint of the rev’s at highway speeds.
If you can live with a non-syncro 1st gear, how about a T-86 overdrive transmission? Ford must have used millions of those behind 292’s, and if not abused they live just fine. Bolting them up is painless. Finding a floor shift for the o/d can be a challenge, space along side for the shifter (new hole in the floor) and maybe the Model A crossmember for the trans mount. But they’re more available than a T85 o/d, and smaller. With the 2.4? 1st and 1.6? 2nd they’ve got pretty decent spacing, 1.1 3rd and 0.7 o/d. That puts you about 2250 at 65mph.
I think there’s some Jeep parts that let you put a floor shifter on top in, but the odd rumor is all I know.
Just a thought.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Miker,
I thought about the T85 at one point but, as you said, probably won't be easy to find one...plus the shifter issue(s). I didn't really entertain the T86 because of its somewhat "delicate" reputation. At the end of the day, it's a hot rod so I would always want the option of beating the crap out of it! (Not Really- but give its reputation, I'd never FULLY trust that it wasn't about to break the next time I drove it.
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By Florida_Phil - 2 Years Ago
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My 55 TBird was born with a T86, R10 overdrive and 4.1 rear gears and still has it's original drive train. My motor is a .060 over 292 with 312 heads and intake. It's a wonderful setup for modern driving. I disable overdrive while driving around town as I rarely get into third gear with the O/D engaged. I use O/D for highway driving. At 60 MPH In 3rd gear O/D, my engine is turning about 2,000 rpm. The O/D drops the RPM by about 1/3. The 4.10 gears make for spirited acceleration. It's a very peppy car. I am nervous about blowing my transmission, so I never hammer it from a stop or power shift. I blew up my share of Ford three speeds back in the day and I don't need any more of that. One more thing, the T86 is not syncro in first. With the O/D engaged you can shift into 1st without coming to a complete stop. The T85 R11 was a very tough transmission if you can find one. It came behind 312s and some big blocks. I doubt you will blow one of them.
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