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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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After tearing my 317 Lincoln y block down, I'm trying to find out if my car would lose a ton of value if I didn't keep the original engine. The block and heads are in good condition but it needs to be bored out and finding oversized pistons or the next size up, the 341 pistons is proving difficult. I was considering building a 302 or 351 and put it in but wanted to keep it original. Kinda thinking about all options at this point. Don't want a race car but dependable cruiser. I appreciate the advice
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By Cliff - 2 Years Ago
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Pistons are easy, call Diamond, JE, Eggie Machine, Arias, Racetec all should be able to make what you want.
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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Egge just got back to me with a quote of $1700 plus $122 for rings. I'm sure they don't ship for free too. Online, je doesn't have lincoln pistons .
Plus this engine has been sitting for 57 years so I have no idea what still works and what doesn't. In process of cleaning parts up and figuring out how to test them.
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By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
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In general, an original vehicle is worth more than custom. It's hard to say by how much an engine swap might affect the value. If it is done well, maybe not too much but if cobbled together without much thought, probably a lot since it raises other questions to a savvy buyer.
Many of those piston manufacturers probably will not have a listing. You will probably need to inquire about custom pistons.
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Replacing an engine may make your car can make it more desirable in the long run. Your 4 door will never ever have the value of a hard top or convertible. Personally a 58-76 352 would be my choice even though they are not as prevalent as they once were a long with a cruise-o-matic. Parts are available much easier than your Lincoln. A 351 can be bought as a replacement but you need to know everything before you buy because of transmission fitment along with an oil pan and front accessories. A donor car always helps but you may not want that.. If your wanting to stay Lincoln, a 4.6 from late one or a Crown Vic along with all the computer parts would make a great swap. You sounds as if your looking for an option but we also need your skills and what your seeing as a dollar figure. Today there are GM LS engines and transmissions in everything including 60’s Continental’s here in SoCal that just leave their hood down. There are shops that specialize in putting them in and I’m sure Az has them too. Good luck
ps: you can buy 3 LS engines for $1700 and 2 with transmissions. I know a 4.6 equipped Lincoln or Crown Vic car would be 1700 running.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Anyone who would put an LS engine in a Y block car should be banned from this site forever. Never install an engine from a brand x vehicle into a Ford. I would rather walk. This IS a Y-Block forum. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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$1822 for what, I'm assuming, are old-school cast pistons and iron rings, is unconscionable. Although you can't find a listing for pistons online, try contacting the manufacturers that make custom-order pistons.
I agree, with few exceptions, that a 4-door will be worth considerably less than either a 2-door hardtop or convertible. Unless your car has sentimental value, and you have deep pockets, I would pass. It will cost as much/more to restore your car as one that would be worth considerably more when finished. Even so, most restorers end up investing considerably more than what they are able to get when they want/need to sell.
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By Cliff - 2 Years Ago
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https://houston.craigslist.org/pts/d/houston-1954-lincoln-317-block-engine/7504129700.html
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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I really wanted to redo the motor and keep it original since it came with factory air. The compressor looks like an old Harley engine and it seems to still work. The car has 68k miles, all brightwork is there any in really good condition. The interior is shot but has power windows and seat. Glass is good. Wanted a project and since this car has no rust at all and 99% complete, it seems like a good starter.
I know this is a y block forum and I've gotten a lot of good info from a lot of people on here. The thought of someone not using the original motor would put some people off the rails, and I totally understand. But if this car isn't really a highly sought after car, it may be worth it to use a more easily buildable motor.
I wanted to try to rebuild the car as much by myself with not a lot of experience.
The good thing is that I have the interior totally gutted, the engine out and apart and I haven't had an issue removing a screw, nut or bolt. Rebuilding the steering and suspension rubber and bearings might just be fairly easy considering the easy of removing parts so far.
I still have to figure out the motor. Not an easy decision
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By 62bigwindow - 2 Years Ago
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I think you just answered your question. Original in my opinion is the only way. It retains the character and value. The small block Ford swap is getting just as boring as the scrub or LS. The money you spend on retrofitting a different engine can be applied to rebuilding the original engine. Ted is the man to get in touch with and discuss your options on a rebuild.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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Your right, it’s not an easy decision. Or an easy vehicle. As I mentioned on another site, I’ve got a soft spot for those Lincoln’s. The first car I really remember is Dad’s 54 Capri. Same color combination IIRC.
Even a rust free, dry area, old low mileage car needs a lot of work. Not difficult, but you’ll spend more time finding parts than most do. Ball joints and brakes I think are more difficult. All the rubber parts, hoses, brake lines, and more . So there’s a lot in front of you.
I’ve done a number of engine swaps. The easy part is having the new FE, or 351, and transmission on the stand. The hard part is the motor mounts, pan clearance, exhaust manifolds, rear crossmember, etc. Your’s has a hydramatic IIRC. The rebuild of it and adaptors for another engine means new transmission to go with the new engine. More items.
So I think if the block and heads pass all the checks-boils out clean, mag check, sonic check, not badly warped for decking, minimal line bore, etc. rebuild what you’ve got. The parts will be more expensive and harder to come by. But then it’s a bolt up operation. Oil pumps, distributor, intake adapter are minor items. And you’ll know most of your cost going in.
But even at $0.10 an hour for your time, don’t plan on making a profit.
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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I hear you Mike. Just don't feel right paying almost 2000 for pistons and rings. I probably will rebuild it since you brought up the other issues present with a swap. I just don't know how to test any of the other parts. I tried to test the starter and it just sparked. I was using an ATV battery and maybe it just didn't have the oomph to turn it. it's parts like the oil pump and fuel pump, power brake master cylinder, power steering pump. I have no idea how to test them for functionality. I suppose I could just get rebuild kits for everything and just rebuild them. That way I know they're good.
This is supposed to be a five year project for my wife. Yes, she gave me permission to take on this project. She wants it to look like a 54 scruby she saw, yellow with green roof. I think it'll look really cool. 
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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B-rad (7/5/2022)
After tearing my 317 Lincoln y block down, I'm trying to find out if my car would lose a ton of value if I didn't keep the original engine. The block and heads are in good condition but it needs to be bored out and finding oversized pistons or the next size up, the 341 pistons is proving difficult. I was considering building a 302 or 351 and put it in but wanted to keep it original. Kinda thinking about all options at this point. Don't want a race car but dependable cruiser. I appreciate the advice.
Engine Swapping:
While it sounds relatively easy to just change to a different engine family, it does tend to be more involved than that. In most cases that will also involve changing the transmission and that in itself becomes a domino effect in making other changes. Some of those changes will include a different or relocated transmission mount, the drive shaft length, transmission yoke, shifter changes, potential tunnel modifications, and the speedometer cable being adapted to the newer transmission. Let’s not forget that the engine may require different engine mounts on the frame and a radiator that must be replaced and/or modified to work with the new combination. A new exhaust system is also added to the list.
Custom Piston ordering:
I use Wiseco, JE Pistons, and Diamond for most of my custom piston requirements. These three piston manufacturers are all owned by Race Winning Brands (RWB) and their pricing is similar. I typically figure about $110 each for custom pistons but piston ring pricing will vary depending upon their widths and the materials from which they are made. When ordering custom pistons, I typically have them made to accommodate metric rings as both the performance and efficiency of the engine is improved with their use. Most of my rings come from Total Seal and there are several options on the ring widths and ring materials and it’s those differences that will dictate the pricing. Most metric ring sets for the Ford Y engines I assemble vary in price anywhere from $125 with shipping up to $290 per set. The pricing variances are dictated strictly by the sizing/design of the rings I order. Some bore sizes have more options than others so that’s also a consideration.
When ordering pistons, you will need to first order the rings so that the pistons can be made to accommodate that particular set of rings. Here’s the link to a discussion started on this site regarding ordering custom pistons.
Custom ordering pistons (y-blocksforever.com)
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Out of curiosity, I looked for 1954 Lincolns for sale. I found a very nice Lincoln Capri 2-door hardtop, coral/w white top, for less than $15,000. The car is in Sunnyvale, CA. If you did not already know, this will give you some idea what the value of your 4-door will be when you're finished.
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By PF Arcand - 2 Years Ago
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..You say it's a low mileage car.. Are you positive it needs a re bore?. As for changing the engine, Ted has gone over that scenario.. As to value of the car, Blacktie has touched on a 2 Dr. H.Top & that price in likely in the Ball park, for a #3+ or #2 car.. Further, "Old Cars Report" price guide from about 5 yrs ago lists a 4 Dr. Capri as (based on #1- to #6 conditions) & I'll put your car as a #3 at about $ 9500 U.S. (some inflation adjustment needed ?) If you really like the car & aren't looking at it as a profitable adventure, because it isn't, go ahead, but I wouldn't change the 317" engine. That's the engine that got them some considerable fame in the Pan American Road Races..
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By PF Arcand - 2 Years Ago
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N.B.- Re the price of Piston's, sounds somewhat high, but does that price include Wrist pins ? If it does, maybe it's not to far out of line?..
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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PF Arcand (8/3/2022)
N.B.- Re the price of piston's, sounds somewhat high, but does that price include wrist pins? If it does, maybe it's not too far out of line?.
Paul. Are you referring to what I posted? If so, then that pricing does include the wrist pins and being fitted to the piston pin bores. That pricing does not vary much even when adding other options such as gas porting, offset wrist pins, adding valve reliefs, different wrist pin lock options, domes or dishes in the piston tops, varying ring widths, changes in compression height, etc. Due to the multitude of bore sizes, it’s rare on my end to order the same exact same custom piston set twice. Considering that many of the older replacement pistons are becoming increasingly more obsolete, custom pistons are a very viable option even though pricing might be tough on some of the ‘old school’ budgets.
Of interesting note was a problem recently in receiving pistons due to a wrist pin shortage. That shortage was driven by a material shortage, so wrist pin production concentrated on the more popular movers such as those with 0.866”, 0.927”, and 0.990” diameters. The 0.915” and 0.975” diameters took a back seat to being made and for Y’s using stock rods, I do use the 0.915” diameter wrist pins. The stroker engines use the 0.866” and 0.927” pins so no piston delivery issues were encountered with those.
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By PF Arcand - 2 Years Ago
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Ted: No, I was referring to the price quote to Brad from Egge of $1700 + rings.. I should have been more clear about that..
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By Richard - 2 Years Ago
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I’m of the mind that value of a hobby is irrelevant. I always hear these statements by so called authorities of the value of a so called collector car. When the rubber meets the road our cars are nothing more then a hobby. If you fly radio controlled models that you either buy or build it’s the reward of showing and flying your airship with a transmitter, if you crash you pick up the pieces and go again either buy or build. When you buy a boat, you go into it to use the boat, to sail, or fish, or wake board, or just cruise;, maintenance, dock fees are high, but you love it, so you do it. Some say boating is pouring money into a waterhole, but you do it anyway. When you go racing, you go to win, you pick your class and go for it, tires oil, fuel, transporting a race car, your in it full andyou love it.ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY OR SOMEONES PERCEIVED VALUE, ITS ABOUT THE SPIRT OF WHAT YOU BUILD, HOW YOU BUILD AND HOW MUCH ENJOYMENT YOU GET FROM YOUR BUILD.
All this other verbiage on affecting value is moot, at least in my mind. Do something cool and to the best of your ability then enjoy the rewards of what you have accomplished. Meet like minded people to share information and appreciation
Richard
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Most will never get the $$$’s out them for what was spent. I sure won’t but I’m enjoying it every weekend at minimum since I live in SoCal. Even doing a lot of work myself the upgrades I wanted in a restored car has made it way better to drive let alone the safety factor. Even the vision of my racing took time because of costs and the lack of the overtime at work I used to do it. Sometimes you just need to find a way.
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By idaho211 - 2 Years Ago
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I vote Lincoln engine. Alot of cars at shows have the old engine swaps. It would be a cool conversation piece to have a Lincoln Y. How many do you see these days? You should start another thread about the restoration of your Lincoln. I would be interested.
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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I have always wanted to keep the original 317 y block but the costs of rebuilding it became a question. The block and heads are in the shop. The mechanic says that the heads are okay as is. I will have him replace the main, rod and cam bearings The block has been bored out .040 over, I have pistons being made. That'll cost me over a grand. I will be changing it to 12 volt, especially since it has a gargantuan two cylinder ac compressor on the engine.
I am currently working on the engine bay. Removing everything in the firewall and fenders. I am also cleaning all the steering and suspension parts, replacing anything that has rubber on them. I will be rattle can painting those parts and sanding down the bay. I will be having the bay painted the same color as the exterior of the car. I'm thinking about painting the steering and suspension parts a dark green and/or black.
Everything so far has been disassembled with wrenches or sockets. No need for fire or saws. I will be getting the body painted most likely before the engine gets finished. This was supposed to be a 5 year project, but it seems to be going a bit faster than I thought.
Yes, there's still the engine install, after the hydra matic tranny gets checked out, the interior completely rebuilt, the brakes and fuel systems rebuilt. But, I think it's going to be a lot faster than originally thought. The most time consuming thing is the cleaning of the parts. So much grease and grime on everything. There's like 1/8 inch of hardened crap on everything. I've been using putty knives, screwdrivers and Dremel wire wheels. Today I used CLR in a tub with my intake manifold and water pump that had a lot of rust inside them. I had a long handled scrub brush to scrub them inside.
I am almost ready to start painting the steering and suspension parts as soon as I get everything cleaned off correctly.
I will also be cleaning the frame of the car, which is impeccably clean, and paint them with black chassis paint. Once again, this car is as close to showroom condition, on the under carriage and metal parts. There's just lots of grease and grime on all the parts that I have to clean off. It is painstakingly timely. I sure would like to know how to get these parts cleaned and paint ready besides scraping with a screwdriver or putty knives.
This is basically an update for this project.
There are quite a few seals on the suspension and steering parts that could use replacement but finding them is proving difficult. I have new control arm bushings, 8 of them, front shocks,and suspension links. I think that's what they are called.
I guess that's about it for now. Taking my time and trying to enjoy it as much as I can. I can see the finished project in my head, and it's for my wife. So I just keep plugging along. If anyone has any advise to give me to help me go forward, I sure would appreciate it.
There's not much to photograph to show progress. But if someone wants to see something in particular, go ahead and ask. I will take a pic and post it.
Thanks for reading all this and for any advice you may have. Peace out
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By Cliff - 2 Years Ago
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Why would you change it to 12 volts?
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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It has a really big ac compressor on it and I don't want there to be a power issue. Plus it needs a wiring harness
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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For cleaning do you have a power washer? It will blow off a lot of buildup. I cover up the fenders and wind shield. I’ve used oven cleaner, purple power, etc after first power wash pump bottle soaking and paint brushes with at least 1/2 the bristles cut off. A leaf blower helps dry.
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By Dobie - 2 Years Ago
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If it's a cycling clutch compressor the clutch is likely 6 volts to match the rest of the electrical system. Many 6 volt devices work just fine on 12 volts ( 6v starters come to mind), but others don't (6v overdrive solenoids). It may or may not be an issue. If it is an issue you'd have to replace the clutch with a 12v unit or swap the compressor out for a more modern one.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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That compressor is pretty cool, I’ve had motorcycles with engines that weren’t that big. Before you get too far down the road, better find out if it can be converted to 12volts, can be converted to modern Freon (what ever we’re supposed to be using now) and if the rest of the system in convertible and useable. I don’t know anything about the Lincoln, but I know some early systems were different, blowing from the trunk up the headliner etc. Cool as it is, it might not be up to standards of todays systems, especially after it’s converted. And in Sierra Vista you’ll need it most of the time.
The wiring probably deserves another post when you get to it. But I’ve never seen a 50’s car that wasn’t due for a complete harness. Even in the Pacific Northwest, the insulation is failing and cracking even it it “looks” good.
Great progress
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By Dobie - 2 Years Ago
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It may or may not have an electromagnetic clutch, check for an electrical connection on the compressor. If there is no electrical connection then the only way to disengage the compressor is to remove the belt. Without a cycling clutch and the associated thermostatic controls outlet temperature was controlled by a system of valves that bypassed refrigerant flow around the evaporator. The compressor itself is an adaptation from commercial refrigeration such as freezer cabinets for supermarkets. The compressor looks plenty stout and could likely be converted to R-134a refrigerant with no durability issues, but as miker says, the heat exchangers (evaporator and condenser) may not work all that well on 134a.
Here's an interesting read on 1950s automotive ac:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/cold-comfort-history-of-automotive-air-conditioning-part-3-post-world-war-ii/
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By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
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Hey guys, thanks a lot for your input. Yeah, I've been all over the place on this site regarding the rebuild. Never been on a forum before and never rebuilt a car before. I've been trying not to get going on too many projects on this car at a time but a lot of this build is dollar dependent. Working pt at Lowe's to make parts money so there's a lot of time cleaning engine parts.
The first thing I did once I got her home was to gut the interior. There was a whole lot of pack rat feces in there that I had to get rid of in order to feel safe opening the door. I continued gutting it til there was just the steering wheel and dash left. Happy to see that the floor was as rust free as I was hoping.
Then I disassembled the engine and took it and the hydra matic tranny out and separated them. The engine and heads went to the shop to get baked and checked. They came out just fine. I had to order .040 over pistons and rings and will have him replace all the bearings.
Since the engine is out I am now replacing the bushings on the steering and suspension systems and cleaning up the engine bay for painting. I'm changing the color. Painting the susp and steering parts. I've been doing a really good job at cleaning the engine parts and hoping to find a way to test them before reinstalling them.
Thes are my plans so far, brakes, fuel system, engine reinstall, wiring, interior, paint, and I'm almost donei realize it's not quite that simple but I am optimistic since almost everything is present and in good shape . I haven't had to use anything but wrenches, sockets and a breaker bar so far. And I've disassembled quite a bit of the car.
Someone suggested that I start a forum topic on this rebuild. I don't quite know in which category to do it.
Thinking about it now, This topic was whether or not to keep the original engine or not. Seems to have gotten off on a bit of a tangent. But as you probably know, I am keeping the original 317 and boring it out to a 323. Gonna figure out a way to get dual exhaust ang eliminate the crossover pipe.
If someone can tell me where I should start a new topic for just the rebuild, I'd appreciate it. Thanks again for the advice. I will be looking for more when it comes to me testing my parts.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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I always enjoy reading about anyones progress, and they’ve been done in different ways here. You might take a look at
https://www.hotrodreverend.com/blog
HRR has done a great job of putting different segment’s together. There’s one titled keeping your restoration moving that might be worth a look for you. Given the commonalities of a lot of Fomoco systems, you might find some of the blogs useful also.
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